71
   

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2007 12:49 pm
well I give up foxy

I admit you can type

And I think you see the point I make and wilfully avoid addressing it.

bye for now.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2007 12:59 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
well I give up foxy

I admit you can type

And I think you see the point I make and wilfully avoid addressing it.

bye for now.
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2007 03:52 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
Its fundamentally different. Hydrogen is not abundant on earth (I'm not saying uranium is....hang on a sec).
But uranium IS abundant, 40x more abundant than silver (people talk about peak-oil, never of peak silver). Ore grade uranium is composed just of 0,7% of U235 which produces energy. The 99,3% (!) remaining composed of U238 could be used to produce as much energy per weight unit as U235 in fast breeders, a technology which has worked 20 years ago. As yet no one want to put more money in R&D for fast breeders since U235 is still dirt cheap.

Another even more abundant energy source than uranium is thorium and with the current technology, we KNOW how to produce energy with thorium (Candu reactors can burn without modification rods containing thorium).

Once you have energy, you can produce the energy carrier you want, be it hydrogen, ammonium, magnesium (which can be oxydized in-situ to produce combustible gas for combustion engine) or even hydrocarbons.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2007 11:09 pm
From the BBC:

US and Brazil seek to fuel friendship
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2007 03:26 pm
At least the (actual) majority of the Supreme Court has some different opinion than a few here ...
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2007 08:27 pm
The Supreme Court ruled that the EPA does indeed have the authority to regulate CO2 in automobile exhaust. The problem with this is that the law in question gives the EPA rights to implemeent restrictions only to the extent that human toxicity can be demonstrated. While the other noxious constituents of automobile exhaust, including sulfur oxides, nitrous oxides, unburned hydrocarbons, particulate matter and carbon monozide all can have toxic efects in sufficient concentrations, carbon dioxide has no such effect. it is a harmless gas.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2007 08:41 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
At least the (actual) majority of the Supreme Court has some different opinion than a few here ...


This is good news.

I find it ironic that now the automakers are some of the biggest proponants of this decision as it will hopefully (in their eyes) eliminate the need for the states to create a patchwork of clean air legislation.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2007 08:54 pm
george,

You might want to google "Carbon dioxide poisoning." While it requires higher concentrations than are found in the atmosphere, it is hardly "harmless."

Come to think of it, all dangerous gases require concentrations larger than is normally found in the atmosphere to become deadly.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2007 08:57 pm
By that standard all gasses apart from oxygen are deadly in sufficient atmospheric concentrations. However, my point remains concerning any realizable level of CO2.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2007 10:44 pm
Since we speak about alternative energy resources here so often:

Europe's commercial concentrating solar power tower has opened in Spain:

http://i13.tinypic.com/43r8i69.jpg
source: Guardian, 03.04.07, page 5
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2007 10:52 pm
Online report:
Quote:
Power tower reflects well on sunny Spain

Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Tuesday April 3, 2007
The Guardian

Europe has gained a new source of renewable energy with the inauguration of the continent's first-ever "power tower" at the centre of a field of mirrors near the southern Spanish town of Sanlúcar la Mayor.
The 115-metre-high tower (377ft) is the key element in what is being hailed as the world's first-ever commercial power tower plant. Rings of huge mirrors laid out around it reflect and focus the sun's power, beaming it back up to the top of the tower where the intense heat is absorbed and transmitted to a steam-driven generator
A total of 624 large mirrors have been placed around the tower to harvest the intense sunshine of south-western Spain.
The 120 sq m heliostat mirrors automatically track the sun as it moves east to west. They will produce temperatures of up to 250C (482F). The tower will produce 11MW of electricity, enough to power some 6,000 homes. "It will save 18,000 tonnes of carbon emissions every year," a spokesman for Arbengoa, the company behind the power tower, said .

The tower, known simply as PS10, represents a comeback for this form of solar energy, which was first tested in the Mojave desert of California in the 1980s.

It is the first stage of an ambitious solar power project at the Sanlúcar la Mayor site, which will use various kinds of solar technology to produce some 300MW of energy within six years. That will be enough to light up some 180,000 homes.

The project includes a second power tower, the PS20, which is due to produce almost twice as much energy as the first.

The power tower in the Mojave became well known when it featured in films such as Wim Wenders' Bagdad Cafe, but other forms of solar energy gained favour in the 1990s.

Solar panels, especially, have been the main focus of research in recent years but improvements in the technology behind the heliostat mirrors has brought renewed interest. Other mirror-based systems, known as concentrating solar power systems, direct the sun's rays onto tubes of liquid or on to a central collecting point in a dish-shaped mirror.

A 64MW solar concentrating power plant, which does not use a tower, is due to open in the Eldorado valley of the Nevada desert later this month, while Israel, Egypt, France, Australia and Algeria are all studying ways to build concentrating solar power system plants. South Africa is considering a 100MW power tower with 5,000 mirrors in the northern Cape.

It still costs around twice as much to produce electricity via concentrating solar power as it does from fossil fuels.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2007 11:26 pm
All they have to do now is build 100 more like it (11MW each) and they will have the equivalent of a single coal-fired or nuclear powerplant.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2007 11:31 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
All they have to do now is build 100 more like it (11MW each) and they will have the equivalent of a single coal-fired or nuclear powerplant.


Sure, I hope they do.

During the course of building them, I bet they get better - more efficient - cheaper.

I bet that the people who live nearby like the jobs the plants create and like the fact that their energy is coming from a renewable source. Why, I bet that they might even encourage their elected leaders to support such measures with tax incentives and grants.

Then the engineers can build bigger, more powerful, safer plants. One little step at a time, a new industry will arise.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 01:19 am
Quote:
Smoke alarm: EU shows carbon trading is not cutting emissions

Some US states want their own 'cap and trade' scheme but the evidence is proving that permits are so generous they fail to curb industry

David Gow in Brussels
Tuesday April 3, 2007
The Guardian


Brussels lambasted the US and Australia yesterday for their inaction in cutting carbon dioxide emissions and stressed Europe's leading role in the battle against global warming. "Only EU leadership can break this impasse on a global agreement [post-Kyoto] to overcome climate change," Stavros Dimas, the EU's environment commissioner, told scientists from the UN's intergovernmental panel on climate change. The body is due to publish a report this week in Brussels on the impact of global warming.

What Mr Dimas knew - but did not tell the scientists, apparently - is that the EU's programme for cutting carbon, its two-year-old emissions trading scheme (ETS), remains in disarray.
The Democrats, who are now the majority party in the US Congress, and California's Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, are drafting plans for an American version of the carbon "cap-and-trade" scheme.

However, preliminary data on the scheme's performance last year - its second year of operation - showed that 93%, or about 9,000 of the 10,000 heavy industrial plants covered by the EU's trading scheme, emitted less carbon than their quota of free permits. The resulting 1%-1.5% rise in emissions was not as great as in 2005 but the spot price of a tonne of carbon fell by about a quarter to €1 (68p), at one point collapsing to just 92 cents.

Only a handful of countries shored up the market by issuing fewer emissions quotas than industry wanted. These included: Britain - where Drax, Europe's biggest coal-fired power plant, emitted 5m tonnes more than its 15.5m tonnes permit - Denmark, Ireland, Italy and Spain. The trading mechanism is designed to create scarcity, forcing up the price of carbon and prompting industries such as steel and power generation to invest in cleaner, greener technologies, such as renewable, carbon-free energy and, eventually, carbon capture and storage. So far, it is manifestly not working as planned.

Debacle

Mr Dimas and his officials deliberately released the raw data early - without analysis or interpretation - to avoid last year's debacle, when premature release of national statistics brought a disorderly collapse of the market. This year the full, sifted figures will be released on May 15.

The 2005 data showed that industry emitted 66m tonnes less carbon than allowed, prompting allegations that, in Germany alone, the four big power producers had enjoyed windfall profits of up to €8bn by cashing in their excess free carbon permits. In Britain, despite the tighter cap, generators are estimated to have made £1bn.

In 2006, industry emitted about 30m tonnes less than permitted. German emissions rose 0.6% while overall EU emissions went up by 1%-1.5% because of resumed growth in the eurozone.

Mr Dimas's officials readily admit that the first phase of the scheme has been a botched experiment because of the generous over-allocation of permits. But they now insist that the second phase will be much more successful because of tighter controls on quotas. Many EU governments have significantly reduced the number of carbon permits they will grant to polluters. Poland has cut its permit total by 26% and Latvia and Lithuania by half.

Brussels believes that the second phase of the trading scheme is crucial because it coincides with the key stage of the Kyoto protocol from 2008 to 2012. Brussels is pressing the US, other developed countries and emerging economies to agree on a global emissions trading scheme to be introduced after 2012, at UN talks starting in Bali in December. The EU has endorsed a unilateral 20% cut in greenhouse gases by 2020 and wants the developed world to sign up to a 30% cut, with countries such as China and India joining in.

"The whole idea of the second phase is to squeeze allocations, push up the carbon price by creating scarcity and encourage companies to invest in future, green technologies," one of Mr Dimas's aides said, pointing to a forward price for carbon in 2008 at close to €17 a tonne. They are delighted that the squeeze on national carbon caps for this second phase has prompted squealing from several big companies.

Cemex, the Mexican cement producer which owns the UK's RMC, is suing the European commission over the British permit plan while US Steel is similarly taking legal action over the Slovakian allocation plan. Three German companies have also launched legal action in the European court of justice.

Mahi Sideridou, EU climate policy director at Greenpeace, said yesterday's data strengthened Mr Dimas's hand in ruling on the second phase of the trading scheme. "In the first phase the commission didn't have any data and governments could freely submit; now it can compare reality to how many permits are given out," she said, suggesting that the commissioner would be emboldened to revise the scheme in time for the second phase.

Mr Dimas wants to include civil aviation in the ETS by 2011 despite the threat of legal action from the US and others. He insisted that the original EU-15 countries were still on course to meet their Kyoto target of an 8% cut in greenhouse gas emissions by 2012, despite mounting signs that Europe is still falling woefully short of this goal on its policies. California, which said last week it planned to link its own ETS to the EU's with four other western US states, and Washington will undoubtedly need more persuasive evidence.

Explainer Trading scheme

The European emissions trading scheme was designed to provide a market-based approach, rather than a direct tax, to the problem of curbing big industrial users' carbon dioxide emissions. It covers sectors such as power generation, steel, glass, cement, ceramics and paper.

Countries are given allocations of the amount of carbon dioxide they can emit which is then divided up between firms covered by the scheme. Firms which emit less than their allocation can sell the unused portion to over-polluters.

The aim is to create a market in carbon where the price is high enough to encourage firms to curb their emissions to keep down costs. Critics argue that the scheme so far has been too generous in terms of allocations, keeping down the price of permits, and that it should be extended to include aviation

There have also been suggestions that the market principle should be taken further and all permits should be auctioned, rather than simply handed out by governments.

Industry is also concerned that at present the scheme only extends to 2012, causing uncertainty over whether there will be a "price for carbon" beyond that date.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 01:20 am
http://i3.tinypic.com/2w7pn2d.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/4hhh7yr.jpg
(The Guardian, print edition, page 22)
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 02:34 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The 115-metre-high tower (377ft) is the key element in what is being hailed as the world's first-ever commercial power tower plant.

[...]

It still costs around twice as much to produce electricity via concentrating solar power as it does from fossil fuels.

Note that the article says it's "commercial". It doesn't say it's profitable without subsidies, and the cost of production strongly suggest that it isn't. The rise of a new industry is a piece of cake if the industry can live on tax money paid by other industries.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 03:04 am
Health and Education being the biggies at that.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 04:20 am
I'm pretty sure that doctors and teachers could make a living if the law of supply and demand governed healthcare and schooling. Poor people may not be able to afford them in this regulatory regime, justifying some government interference with market forces. But the industries as such would prosper, and the firms in them would turn in handsome profits.

This is much more than the "power tower" of Sanlúcar la Mayor can say of itself.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 05:44 am
Thomas wrote:
I'm pretty sure that doctors and teachers could make a living if the law of supply and demand governed healthcare and schooling. Poor people may not be able to afford them in this regulatory regime, justifying some government interference with market forces. But the industries as such would prosper, and the firms in them would turn in handsome profits.

This is much more than the "power tower" of Sanlúcar la Mayor can say of itself.


Not only would doctors and teachers make a living based on the law of supply and demand, but we would get better and more affordable healthcare and our kids might actually be educated again. I have yet to see the government take over anything from the private sector that did not make the services more costly and less satisfying and/or efficient.

That is why the recent Supreme Court ruling declaring CO2 as a pollutant is particularly worrying. On one hand government should indeed safeguard the health and welfare of the people in areas where the people themselves cannot choose this for themselves and the Court is correct in recognizing that function. On the other hand, including CO2 in the definition of pollutant opens the door for all kinds of unintended mischief by the unscrupulous and the addle brained wackos
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 05:48 am
Interesting replies.

Were schools and medical care historically commercially and on profit organised in the USA, Foxfyre?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 09/21/2024 at 11:31:28