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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Oct, 2005 11:06 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Blatham,

You have, perhaps inadvertantly, misrepresenteed Bennetts obvious meaning and intent in his statement, in part by omitting his words immediately preceeding and those following the piece you quoted. He was referring to "scientific" claims published by supporters of abortion on demand that there is a correlation between the increased incidence of abortion and a concurrent decrease in crime rates. The referenced paper claimed that the increrased use of aboprtion to eliminate unwanted children by women unable to support or rear them properly was a profoundly beneficial phemomenon in our society. Bennett merely pointed to the unstated racism implicit in this analysis. In his words immediately following those you quoted he expresed his strong opposition to this view and his distaste for the hypocricy andf immorality of those who advocate it.


Interesting and diverse correspondence.

Getting well off-topic, but in yesterday's Observer there was an interesting report on a study which says that children who are not brought up by their mothers tend to have an increased incidence of antisocial tendencies.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1583072,00.html

Quote:
According to Penelope Leach, a leading British childcare expert and one of the study's authors, the social and emotional development of children cared for by someone other than their mother 'is definitely less good'.
Such children tend to show higher levels of aggression or are inclined to become more withdrawn, compliant and sad. Tests included the ability to do a series of set tasks and the level of eye-contact maintained with adults.
Leach will outline details of the study's findings tomorrow at a conference organised by the National Childminding Association, of which she is president. 'The study does not mean every child in a large nursery will become a monster,' she said. 'Nevertheless, it shows a small but significant difference in a large group of children.'
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 09:05 am
Here's another profound insight:
Children who are neither sired by a father or borne by a mother do not yet exist.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 10:17 am
ican711nm wrote:
Here's another profound insight:
Children who are neither sired by a father or borne by a mother do not yet exist.


IIASC

Evidently the doctors and academics who conducted the study did not consider the subject trite nor the conclusions obvious or predictable.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 10:26 am
Evidently! Surprised
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 01:58 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
You have, perhaps inadvertantly, misrepresenteed Bennetts obvious meaning and intent in his statement, in part by omitting his words immediately preceeding and those following the piece you quoted. He was referring to "scientific" claims published by supporters of abortion on demand that there is a correlation between the increased incidence of abortion and a concurrent decrease in crime rates. The referenced paper claimed that the increrased use of aboprtion to eliminate unwanted children by women unable to support or rear them properly was a profoundly beneficial phemomenon in our society.

I think you are talking about a fairly famous paper by Steven Levitt. Levitt is one of Chicagos best economists -- which is saying something, and is not suggesting an overly liberal bias. I didn't read his original paper, but have read his summary in the book. Judging by that summary, the paper addressed dozens of competing explanations that had been offered for America's declining crime rates over the 1990s. Levitt's project was to test which ones of these explanations withstood serious statistical analysis. Many popular candidates did not pass the test (including tougher law enforcement) . Several obscure ones did pass the test, including the now-famous one about abortion. I don't believe Levitt's analysis is either implicitly or explicitly racist; and based on his credentials, I am willing to vouch that there is no need to put the word 'scientific' in scare quotes when describing it. In particular, I am certain that Levitt did not talk about black embryos. Only Bennet did -- that was the tasteless part I talked about.

But when sensitivity police, echoed by Blatham, complained about Bennet's argument, they completely missed that that was exactly his point: He presented it as a bad argument. The full context at mediamatters.org, which I pointed to in my last post, makes this clear. The the accusations against Bennet is 20% valid core, 80% hot air.

EDIT: Here is what Steven Levitt himself has to say about the affair:
Quote:
It is true that, on average, crime involvement in the U.S. is higher among blacks than whites. Importantly, however, once you control for income, the likelihood of growing up in a female-headed household, having a teenage mother, and how urban the environment is, the importance of race disappears for all crimes except homicide. . . . In other words, for most crimes a white person and a black person who grow up next door to each other with similar incomes and the same family structure would be predicted to have the same crime involvement. . . . He made a factual statement (if you prohibit any group from reproducing, then the crime rate will go down), and then he noted that just because a statement is true, it doesn't mean that it is desirable or moral. That is, of course, an incredibly important distinction and one that we make over and over in Freakonomics.

Source

Bennet and Levitt both make sense to me, even if Bennet could have worded his point better.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:09 pm
Anyone seen The Godfather?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:12 pm
Parts 1 and 2, but not 3. Why?
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:14 pm
Thomas wrote:
Parts 1 and 2, but not 3. Why?


paleskins committing crimes.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:20 pm
Only when they have to. Actually The Godfather is all about family values, small businesses, and the American Dream. Kind of like the GOP, except that the leading figures in Godfather have a code of honor.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:20 pm
Mac-

ican's quote is poetic and should be read that way.
It is not in the least trite.It is profound.

Does it bother you in some way?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:22 pm
And not only is it bang on topic it is about the only thing on here that is.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:38 pm
spendius wrote:
Mac-

ican's quote is poetic and should be read that way.
It is not in the least trite.It is profound.

Does it bother you in some way?


Ican bothers me in many ways, so much so that I evidently fail to notice poetry and profundity where others don't. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:44 pm
Thomas wrote:
Only when they have to. Actually The Godfather is all about family values, small businesses, and the American Dream. Kind of like the GOP, except that the leading figures in Godfather have a code of honor.


Very Happy Nice one, Thomas

I was thinking pursuant to this, that individuals at the bottom of the "food chain" commit the most obvious and overt crimes (violence, destruction, burglary, robbery) and those with more money and more connections can disguise their involvement.

Distorts the picture.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 03:19 pm
Mac-

The thing is that an 11 year old can read it pedantically.

Now,I don't know ican's source but I'll bet it wasn't written for 11 year olds and it probably had an editor.You must be saying then that the source is trite and the editor and by extension the readers it was aimed at are also.

That is getting to be a large claim and seemingly based on your underestimation of other people.The others you refer to are your witnesses not ican's.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 03:45 pm
spendy spendy

whose side are you on man?

icanism or the observable universe?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 03:53 pm
spendius wrote:
Mac-

The thing is that an 11 year old can read it pedantically.

Now,I don't know ican's source but I'll bet it wasn't written for 11 year olds and it probably had an editor.You must be saying then that the source is trite and the editor and by extension the readers it was aimed at are also.

That is getting to be a large claim and seemingly based on your underestimation of other people.The others you refer to are your witnesses not ican's.


I think you have misunderstood my remark to Ican.

But please don't encourage him, he can do that all by himself. Regrettably.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 04:40 pm
I must admit I hadn't noticed ican before.

I liked the quote he gave but that doesn't mean that ican sees it in the same way I do.I was talking about the quote not ican.He might be a total toss-pot for all I know.What's the beef you have with him.I might agree with it.I just liked the quote.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 04:43 pm
Steve-

I'm on the side of no work,soft beds, pots of ale and voluptuous women.

Is there another side?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:08 pm
spendius wrote:
Steve-

I'm on the side of no work,soft beds, pots of ale and voluptuous women.

Is there another side?


I'm on the side of lotsa work, hard beds, zero ale, and lean women ... and Oh Yes Exclamation Very Happy flying high.

but don't encourage me
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:46 pm
im sure youll get on just fine
0 Replies
 
 

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