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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 02:31 am
blatham wrote:

There's no need to shoot someone who is already more holes than target.
Monbiot posted a long refutal text with is only a cut/paste of Realclimate (without saying that). But he gives no precise reference or no name to the would-be papers he cited, so newspaper readers can't verify what he says so he can say anything.

I follow the sun case, its science is solid and I know what Monbiot says is crap but since he gives no specifics, no-one can disagree.
The only time he gives an explicit reference is Gavin Schmidt on RealClimate. If you are of good faith, you'll have a look at the discussion therewhere Shaviv replied to Gavin (Schmidt) and Pierrehumbert. In a heavily "moderated" blog by AGWer, you'll see that Shaviv prevailed with his cosmic rays theorie. But I know you won't read it and prefer believe sci-fi writer hysterical Monbiot.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 02:55 am
Some people obviously have difficulties to understand the "term" COMMENT.

Not so the readers of the Guardian.

online (blatham's link)

http://i11.tinypic.com/2cmunok.jpg

print edidition:

http://i7.tinypic.com/30kyi48.jpg

"comment." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (13 Mar. 2007):
Quote:
Main Entry: 1com·ment Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: käment sometimes -_mnt
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
Etymology: Middle English, commentary, exposition, from Late Latin commentum commentary, from Latin, invention, contrivance, from neuter of commentus, past participle of comminisci to invent, contrive, devise, from com- + -minisci (from the root of ment-, mens mind) -- more at MIND
1 : an expository treatise : COMMENTARY
2 a : a note or observation intended to explain, illustrate, or criticize the meaning of a writing : ANNOTATION comments upon the passage were printed in the margin b : the whole body of such matter two pages of comment for every page of text >
3 a : an observation or remark expressing an opinion or attitude concerning what has been seen or heard or concerning the subject at hand she listens, and puts in from time to time some critical comment -- Rose Macaulay b : discussion, interpretation, or expression of opinion or attitude the paper also gave comment on the news in signed editorials -- Jacques Kayser : CRITICISM the brown tweeds, sir, ... would have occasioned unfavorable comment -- T.S.Watt
4 : a critical observation, interpretation, or expression of opinion conveyed by suggestion, implication, analogy, or other indirect means the painting is a comment on the subject's character the film is an ironic comment on the industrial age
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 06:13 am
Monbiot is no doubt a darling of the far leftwing wacko groups though his credentials are not impeccable there as he seems to object to development and use of biofuels of which most of the pro-AGW environmentalists are quite enamored. He claims to be an occasional professor and also a darling of the United Nations. I'm sure his columns are well read.

The thing is I can't seem to find much in the way of credentials that would certify him an authority on much of anything. The bio for most experts includes their BA or masters or PhD from Harvard or some such along with specific discipline or disciplines. I haven't found that with Monbiot.

Admittedly self educated people can develop expertise in many things or perhaps all things and lack of a degree does not disqualify one from accurate reporting. But commentary or not or whatever you call his critique of the program, it sure reads more like a leftwing screed of "all the AGW science is right without question and therefore the skeptics are wrong without question" rather than anything of substance or authority.

He certainly did not add anything useful to the debate.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 06:20 am
miniTAX wrote:
blatham wrote:

There's no need to shoot someone who is already more holes than target.
Monbiot posted a long refutal text with is only a cut/paste of Realclimate (without saying that). But he gives no precise reference or no name to the would-be papers he cited, so newspaper readers can't verify what he says so he can say anything.

I follow the sun case, its science is solid and I know what Monbiot says is crap but since he gives no specifics, no-one can disagree.
The only time he gives an explicit reference is Gavin Schmidt on RealClimate. If you are of good faith, you'll have a look at the discussion therewhere Shaviv replied to Gavin (Schmidt) and Pierrehumbert. In a heavily "moderated" blog by AGWer, you'll see that Shaviv prevailed with his cosmic rays theorie. But I know you won't read it and prefer believe sci-fi writer hysterical Monbiot.


You are quite correct in assuming I won't read it. My scientific expertise in this and other related matters is insufficient to facilitate the discernments necessary in weighing competing claims. I also stand aside, mouth shut, during discussions on neolithic Anatolian pottery shards and what might be validly deduced from them as regards the (possible) relationship between the spread of millet and Indo-European.

But, where such a discussion might include a speaker who:
a) sells Anatolian pottery shards on Ebay or
b) has a cousin and intellectual comrade in the Alabama Nazi Youth Militia who believes that Indo-European is a false linguistic category created and promoted by Belgian jewry so as to provide a rationale for the occupation of the Holy Land while (and this is their REAL goal) covertly picking up monopoly control of all the bowling alleys in America or
c) has a history packed like a jelly sandwich with squishy deceits...

then I just might wade in.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 06:46 am
Even Tony can get some things right.

Quote:
Tony Blair compared the fight against climate change to the battle against fascism and the cold war today, as the government pledged to cut carbon emissions by 60% by 2050 with the publication of the UK's first ever climate change bill.
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green/story/0,,2032710,00.html
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 06:53 am
blatham wrote:
b) has a cousin and intellectual comrade in the Alabama Nazi Youth Militia who believes that Indo-European is a false linguistic category created and promoted by Belgian jewry so as to provide a rationale for the occupation of the Holy Land while (and this is their REAL goal) covertly picking up monopoly control of all the bowling alleys in America or
Point Godwin reached, but in such a fiercely funny way I'd say, hat off blatham. http://images.forum-auto.com/images/perso/1/audio45.gif
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 06:55 am
I like you too. (and another great gif)
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 06:57 am
blatham wrote:
Even Tony can get some things right.
tony, tony... Isn't he the man who commissionned a report on WMD in Iraq to justify ass-kicking some Saddam, and who recently ordered a cataclysmic report on GW from a certain Sir Nicholas ? :wink:
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 06:59 am
The same Tony. He's been a disappointment to everyone, likely his mother included.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 07:11 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Monbiot is no doubt a darling of the far leftwing wacko groups ... ...


That might well be - you don't get a son of the Conservative Party's chairman and a decade-long Conservative Councellor, member of the Conservative Party, fellow at Green College Oxford etc etc very often as witness Laughing
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 08:11 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Monbiot is no doubt a darling of the far leftwing wacko groups ... ...


That might well be - you don't get a son of the Conservative Party's chairman and a decade-long Conservative Councellor, member of the Conservative Party, fellow at Green College Oxford etc etc very often as witness Laughing


Witness for what? Global warming is not specifically a left/right thing though with folks from both sides of the political spectrum represented on both sides of the issue.

Nobody I think would describe Monbiot as a conservative, however, at least as we describe 'conservative' here.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 08:23 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Nobody I think would describe Monbiot as a conservative, however, at least as we describe 'conservative' here.


Well, might be. As said, his father is the chairman of the British Conservative Party and his mother a conservative councillor for more than 20 years and he ... :wink:
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 08:30 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Nobody I think would describe Monbiot as a conservative, however, at least as we describe 'conservative' here.


Well, might be. As said, his father is the chairman of the British Conservative Party and his mother a conservative councillor for more than 20 years and he ... :wink:


He certainly wouldn't be the first kid to reject the values of his parents though. With a heritage like that, however, I wonder why he didn't finish his education?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 08:42 am
Foxfyre wrote:
With a heritage like that, however, I wonder why he didn't finish his education?


Who said so?

Some here, and especially the more conservative, don't 'fluff up' with their academic degrees and/or titles.
That is only done, when get a chair at an American university :wink:

In the moment, he's professor of planning at Oxford Brookes University, before he had hold at least five other professorships ... due his various academic degrees. Laughing
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 08:51 am
Corrrection: he's a "visiting professor" nwo, and it were only four different other universities where he taught after he left teaching at Green College, Oxford University.
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 08:52 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, might be. As said, his father is the chairman of the British Conservative Party and his mother a conservative councillor for more than 20 years and he ... :wink:
You know Walter, in France, we have alter-mondialist, anti GMO, GMO fields and McDo restaurant destructor, presidential candidate José Bové whose father is an eminent professor in biochemistry and a specialist in vegetal selection (my wife attended some of Bové Sr's classes!).

So I would say intelligence and common sense happen to be herited... but not always Laughing
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 08:52 am
Yes.

So you think, Monbiot is to be compared to a convicted terrorist and member of terroristic groups listed both in the USA and the EU? (At least he claimed being a member of such.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 09:11 am
miniTAX wrote:
... José Bové whose father is an eminent professor in biochemistry and a specialist in vegetal selection (my wife attended some of Bové Sr's classes!).


Impressive!

1959-1968 : chef du service de Biochimie de l'IRFA (Institut de Recherches sur les Fruits et Agrumes)
1968-1971 : professeur associé, université de Nancy, France
1971 : nommé sur concours directeur de recherche INRA. Nommé directeur de la station de Physiologie
végétale, INRA Bordeaux
1974 : nommé directeur du laboratoire de Biologie cellulaire et moléculaire
1976 : nommé professeur de Microbiologie, université de Bordeaux 2, pour enseigner la biologie
moléculaire des procaryotes et de leurs virus et la biologie moléculaire des virus des eucaryotes
1995 : nommé professeur en surnombre, université de Bordeaux 2
1998 : nommé Professeur Emérite, université de Bordeaux 2.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 11:43 am
I believe even the revered Thomas Aquinas would be impressed by the continued affection of the advocates of the AGW obsession for the Argument from Authority which they so fervently repeat (along with assurances that they themselves don't understand the science involved any more than they do the arcane details of Neolithic Anatolian pottery).

Again it is the psychological implications of this situation -- in which so many unquestioningly accept the prescription that mankind must abandon its modern technologies and all the progress they have brought, in order to avoid an apocalyptic doom forecast by a self-interested priesthood whose cant they don't profess to understand -- that so fascinates me.

Perhaps the true environmental; zealots will soon come up with a form of the "Rapture" in which they and other true believers will be wisked away to a celestial Marin county, just before the deserved doom engulfs the unbelieving masses.

The evangelicals of the secular left strongly resemble their close cousin opposite numbers -- though they fervently deny it.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 01:25 pm
georgeob1 wrote:

Again it is the psychological implications of this situation -- in which so many unquestioningly accept the prescription that mankind must abandon its modern technologies and all the progress they have brought, in order to avoid an apocalyptic doom forecast by a self-interested priesthood whose cant they don't profess to understand -- that so fascinates me.

.
Why argue from authority when you can create such obvious strawmen?
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