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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 11:15 am
Foxfyre wrote:

I thought with your name that you WERE Scottish. Wrong, huh?


You think, Scottish persons aren't allowed to re-enter? (McTag did so a couple of times before, even this year, as far as I remember.)
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:30 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
McTag wrote:
Going up to Scotland tomorrow, might need floats and paddles. Smile


I thought with your name that you WERE Scottish. Wrong, huh?

What I know is a lot of Scottish names begin by "MAC" (and French names end by TAX") :wink:
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:33 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
On the other hand the Russians are seeing some positive aspects to global warming. They see Siberia as becoming bread basket to the world if current climate trends continue.
The problem for the Russians is to find people to plow their lands rather than to find lands. They are losing 500.000 people (!) each year.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:40 pm
miniTAX wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
McTag wrote:
Going up to Scotland tomorrow, might need floats and paddles. Smile


I thought with your name that you WERE Scottish. Wrong, huh?

What I know is a lot of Scottish names begin by "MAC" (and French names end by TAX") :wink:
he's an ex pat mc tag. Or should that be mcpat exTag...I dunno...but he's genuine Scots I can vouch for that.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:52 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:

I thought with your name that you WERE Scottish. Wrong, huh?


You think, Scottish persons aren't allowed to re-enter? (McTag did so a couple of times before, even this year, as far as I remember.)


I was born there, and spent the first 28 years of my life there.

Since then, I've been doing missionary work down here.

But the Scots typically travel about quite a lot, and have done for some time. Frazer River, Muir Woods, Carnegie Hall, Murray-Darling rivers, we were there.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:54 pm
Quote:
Muir Woods


Going there tommorrow.

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 01:00 pm
McTag wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:

I thought with your name that you WERE Scottish. Wrong, huh?


You think, Scottish persons aren't allowed to re-enter? (McTag did so a couple of times before, even this year, as far as I remember.)


I was born there, and spent the first 28 years of my life there.

Since then, I've been doing missionary work down here.

But the Scots typically travel about quite a lot, and have done for some time. Frazer River, Muir Woods, Carnegie Hall, Murray-Darling rivers, we were there.


Yes I know. My maternal grandmother was a Scot immigrant and I still have family there so they tell me, but nobody seems to know where they are. But Scotland is on my list of places for an extended visit before I die. (I never knew her as she died when my mother was very young.)
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 01:42 pm
McTag wrote:
Since then, I've been doing missionary work down here.


"Down here" means North West England, just behind the Hadrians Wall.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 04:13 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Muir Woods


Going there tommorrow.

Cycloptichorn


I just noticed - Cyclo is from Bezerkley !! It figures !! :wink:
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 04:25 pm
I went to a ticket office for the BART once, and I said I wanted to go to Berkeley.

They laughed, and said

"Oh, you mean Birr-keley!"

Silly.
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 04:26 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
McTag wrote:
Since then, I've been doing missionary work down here.


"Down here" means North West England, just behind the Hadrians Wall.


Which is so NOT 'down here'!
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 05:49 pm
American electric car innovators

http://www.mlive.com/mbusinessreview/oak/index.ssf?/mbusinessreview/oak/stories/20061214_electriccar.html

Cycloptichorn
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 10:20 pm
Seems there may be a number of similar type products being developed. I think I've seen similar things on ebay.

I'm all in favor. The market will make these products viable. I like the idea of solar panels on the cars exterior. These vehicles would be quite suitable for city and short trip use. I look to buy a hybrid car for full time use in a year, two, or three maybe, and / or an electric car for local use probably within a few years, when the technology is further refined.
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2006 02:48 am
Indian car innovator: the hyped G-Wiz for London's hype suburb is in fact the Reva, made in India, with lead batteries ! Huge profits for the "green" resellers. AGW and culpabilization marketing pays. Pffiew, I wouldn't even imagine a crash of this expensive toy with a SUV.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/12/GWIZ121206_228x113.jpg
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2006 06:24 am
I don't know, miniTAX, when you've been the last time in London - I wonder, how many SUV's you can find within the Congestion Charging Zone.

Besides, even 42 years ago, when I'd been for the very first time in England, I've wonder about those funny little, some three-wheeled cars ...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2006 06:44 am
Foxfyre wrote:

But looking at that picture Walter posted, I shuddered to think about trying to shop in the middle of that enormous crowd. Is that appealing to you Europeans?


Finally, I've found pictures how it looks alike on normal, pre-Christmas Saturdays (from today's Evening Standard, First Edition, page 5):

http://i14.tinypic.com/2s67mer.jpg
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2006 12:22 pm
Good for Lord Monckton. It's nice to know there is at least one more clear head across the big pond. Smile

British Lord Stings Senators Rockefeller and Snowe: 'Uphold Free Speech or Resign'


WASHINGTON, Dec. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- Lord Monckton, Viscount of Brenchley, has sent an open letter to Senators Rockefeller (D-WV) and Snowe (R-Maine) in response to their recent open letter telling the CEO of ExxonMobil to cease funding climate-skeptic scientists. (http://ff.org/centers/csspp/pdf/20061212_monckton.pdf).

Lord Monckton, former policy adviser to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, writes: "You defy every tenet of democracy when you invite ExxonMobil to deny itself the right to provide information to 'senior elected and appointed government officials' who disagree with your opinion."

In what The Charleston (WV) Daily Mail has called "an intemperate attempt to squelch debate with a hint of political consequences," Senators Rockefeller and Snowe released an open letter dated October 30 to ExxonMobil CEO, Rex Tillerson, insisting he end Exxon's funding of a "climate change denial campaign." The Senators labeled scientists with whom they disagree as "deniers," a term usually directed at "Holocaust deniers." Some voices on the political left have called for the arrest and prosecution of skeptical scientists. The British Foreign Secretary has said skeptics should be treated like advocates of Islamic terror and must be denied access to the media.
MORE HERE
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2006 12:39 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Good for Lord Monckton. It's nice to know there is at least one more clear head across the big pond. Smile


Well, as the Lord says ...

Btw: Lord Monckton's letter - which was origianally published about four weeks ago - has been posted on the website of Frontiers of Freedom, a conservative Virginia-based group that has sponsored a campaign through its Center for Science and Public Policy to prevent Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth from being added to science curricula in the country's schools.

The website SourceWatch reports that they have received funding from ExxonMobil.


A reply to Monckton in The Guardian

Quote:
This is a dazzling debunking of climate change science. It is also wildly wrong


Deniers are cock-a-hoop at an aristocrat's claims that global warming is a UN hoax. But the physics is bafflingly bad

George Monbiot
Tuesday November 14, 2006
The Guardian


For the past nine days my inbox has been filling up with messages labelled "Your scam exposed", "The great fraud unravels" and "How do you feel now, asshole?". They are referring to a new "scientific paper", which proves that the "climate change scare" is a tale "worthier of St John the Divine than of science".

Published in two parts on consecutive Sundays, it runs to a total of 52 pages, containing graphs, tables and references. To my correspondents, to a good many journalists and to thousands of delighted bloggers, this paper clinches it: climate change is a hoax perpetrated by a leftwing conspiracy coordinated by the United Nations.

So which was the august journal that published it? Science? Nature? Geophysical Research Letters? Not quite. It was the Sunday Telegraph. In keeping with most of the articles about climate change in that publication, it is a mixture of cherry-picking, downright misrepresentation and pseudo-scientific gibberish. But it has the virtue of being incomprehensible to anyone who is not an atmospheric physicist.

The author of this "research article" is Christopher Monckton, otherwise known as Viscount Monckton of Brenchley. He has a degree in classics and a diploma in journalism and, as far as I can tell, no further qualifications. But he is confident enough to maintain that - by contrast to all those charlatans and amateurs who wrote the reports produced by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change - he is publishing "the truth".

The warming effects of carbon dioxide, Lord Monckton claims, have been exaggerated, distorted and made up altogether. One example of the outrageous fraud the UN body has committed is the elimination from its temperature graphs of the "medieval warm period", which, he claims, was "real, global and up to 3C warmer than now". He runs two graphs side by side, one of which shows the temperature record over the past 1,000 years as rendered by the UN panel, and the other purporting to show real temperatures over the same period.

The world was so hot 600 years ago, he maintains, that "there was little ice at the North Pole: a Chinese naval squadron sailed right round the Arctic in 1421 and found none". By contrast the planet is currently much cooler than climate scientists predicted. In 1988, for example, the world's most celebrated climatologist, James Hansen of Nasa, "told the US Congress that temperature would rise 0.3C by the end of the century (it rose 0.1C), and that sea level would rise several feet (no, one inch)".

Most importantly, "the UN repealed a fundamental physical law", doubling the size of the constant (lambda) in the Stefan-Boltzmann equation. By assigning the wrong value to lambda, the UN's panel has exaggerated the sensitivity of the climate to extra carbon dioxide. Monckton's analysis looks impressive. It is nonsense from start to finish.

His claims about the Stefan-Boltzmann equation have been addressed by someone who does know what he's talking about, Dr Gavin Schmidt of Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies. He begins by pointing out that Stefan-Boltzmann is a description of radiation from a "black body" - an idealised planet that absorbs all the electromagnetic radiation that reaches it. The Earth is not a black body. It reflects some of the radiation it receives back into space.

Schmidt points out that Monckton also forgets, in making his calculations, that "climate sensitivity is an equilibrium concept": in other words that there is a time-lag of several decades between the release of carbon dioxide and the eventual temperature rise it causes. If you don't take this into account, the climate's sensitivity to carbon dioxide looks much smaller. This is about as fundamental a mistake as you can make in climate science.

What of his other claims? Well, the reason the "medieval warm period" doesn't show up on the UN panel's graphs is simple. As far as climatologists can tell, there wasn't one. So why did the Vikings, as Monckton points out, settle in Greenland?

As a paper published in Reviews of Geophysics shows, Vikings first arrived in Greenland at the very beginning of the "warm period" Monckton discusses, when temperatures, even according to his graph, were lower than they are today. They did so because life had become too hot for them in their adopted home (Iceland): not climatically, but politically. There does appear to have been a slight warming in some parts of the northern hemisphere. There is no reliable evidence that this was a global phenomenon. As for the Chinese naval squadron sailing round the Arctic, it is pure bunkum - a myth long discredited by serious historians.

So what of those graphs? Look at them carefully and you see that they are measuring two different things: global temperatures (the UN panel's progression) and European temperatures (Monckton's line). You will also discover that the scales are different.

As for James Hansen, he did not tell the US Congress that temperatures would rise by 0.3C by the end of the past century. He presented three possible scenarios to the US Senate - high, medium and low. Both the high and low scenarios, he explained, were unlikely to materialise. The middle one was "the most plausible".

As it happens, the middle scenario was almost exactly right. He did not claim, under any scenario, that sea levels would rise by several feet by 2000. But a climatologist called Patrick Michaels took the graph from Hansen's paper, erased the medium and low scenarios and - in testimony to Congress - presented the high curve as Hansen's prediction for climate change. A memo sent in July from the Intermountain Rural Electric Association, a US company whose power is largely supplied by coal, revealed that Michaels has long been funded by electricity companies. "In February this year, IREA alone contributed $100,000 to Dr Michaels." Michaels, it says, meets periodically with industry representatives to discuss their activities in countering stories about climate change.

Pat Michaels's misrepresentation of Hansen's claims was picked up by Michael Crichton in his novel State of Fear, and somehow transmuted into an "error" of 300%. Monckton gives no source for his claim about Hansen, but Crichton's novel features in his references. The howlers go on and on. There is scarcely a line in Lord Monckton's paper which is not wildly wrong.

Yet none of this appears to embarrass the Sunday Telegraph, which championed his findings this week in a leading article. I think I know what the problem is. At a meeting of 150 senior journalists last year, who had gathered to discuss climate change, the chairman asked how many people in the audience had a science degree. Three of us raised our hands. Readers cannot expect a newspaper editor to possess a detailed understanding of atmospheric physics, but there should at least be someone who knows what science looks like whom the editor consults before running a piece.

A scientific paper is one published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. This means it has been subject to scrutiny by other experts in the field. This doesn't suggest that it's the last word on the subject, but it does mean it is worth discussing. For newspapers such as the Sunday Telegraph the test seems to be much simpler. If they don't understand it, it must be science.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2006 09:56 pm
That UN! Worse than the Masons.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2006 11:44 pm
It is amusing to watch the Inquisitors of the 21st century imitate their forbearers.
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