Where is the Centre of the Universe?

Oh you.............all. Interesting, intellectual, witty and even comical at times.

I like it.

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Adele, If you like this try "the Universe and Space" thread in the philosophy and debate forum

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Hello...Happy New Leap Year to you all.

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Back atcha, Bib.

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Happy New Year to you both.

To answer your question. Every Canadian knows its Toronto. At least that's what the denizens of the metropolis would have you believe.

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Universal Centre,
if the Universe were infinite, then wherever you are is the centre, because you couldn't point in any direction and say it's smaller in distance than any other direction, so no matter which way you point the distance is the same, infinite, so you are always at the centre of an infinite Universe and so am I and so is everything and everyone, that would be odd wouldn't it?

But, since the Universe is Expanding, it can't be infinite, can it? There must be a centre to a non infinite Universe and we must be in a non infinite Universe. I wonder what it's expanding into? Well, I know that Space is contained within the Universe, but the Space is expanding into what, non Space, a true void, an area, Heaven help us,where are we going?

the cheeky wee monkey Embarrassed

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curious george
Hi, I think the universe is still developing, or still being created, however way you look at it. :wink:

Acomtha

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i agree with george on the wherever is the centre thing, but if the universe is finite, i don't think Earth can or should be the centre.

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Re: Universal Centre,

curious George, wrote:

But, since the Universe is Expanding, it can't be infinite, can it?

You really should have stuck with all those "if"s you were using.

You don't know if the universe is expanding -- or if it just seems to be doing so from our perspective. You also do not know if the UNIVERSE is finite or infinite.

Neither do the scientists of the world.

Or at least that is my guess.

I would be interested to see if you can dissuade me of that! :wink:

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if's, that's all I have to go by.
you said that I don't know "if" the Universe is expanding and neither do the scientists.

that's not true though, they and I do know that the Universe is expanding and not only that, they and I know that the expansion is speeding up, but neither them nor I know why.

how it's known to be expanding is that almost every star in the Universe that we can see is Red shifted, do you know what that means? I'll tell you what I've read about it, not that I'm mr. smarty pants or anything or a know it all, very far from it.

If you read about what the Redshift means it means that every body in space is moving away from us, if they were moving toward us, any of them, they would be Blueshifted, that is, their light waves would be compressed to the blue end of the spectrum and that's what happens to light when it's source is moving, it's either Red and coming to you or Blue and going away. Unless Earth is the exact centre of the Universe this should be the case wherever you view it, anywhere in the Universe. Have you heard of Edwin Hubble whom the Telescope was named after? You could look up the Hubble Constant and read about the expansion of the Universe.

all I'm saying is that "if" the Universe were infinite it could hardly be expanding, could it? Maybe it's only expanding as far as we can see, I wouldn't know about that and I don't know if anyone else would either.

it's an interesting topic though fun to think about.

nice to meet you

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Re: if's, that's all I have to go by.

curious George, wrote:

you said that I don't know "if" the Universe is expanding and neither do the scientists.

that's not true though, they and I do know that the Universe is expanding and not only that, they and I know that the expansion is speeding up, but neither them nor I know why.

Nonsense!

Just a few short years ago, you and all those scientists you spoke of would have KNOWN that the Universe was not expanding -- but contracting.

Fact is, it APPEARS as though the universe is expanding -- just as it APPEARS as though the sun and moon rise.

But we do not know nearly enough about the universe to know for sure if the appearance is the REALITY.

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how it's known to be expanding is that almost every star in the Universe that we can see is Red shifted, do you know what that means? I'll tell you what I've read about it, not that I'm mr. smarty pants or anything or a know it all, very far from it.

If you read about what the Redshift means it means that every body in space is moving away from us, if they were moving toward us, any of them, they would be Blueshifted, that is, their light waves would be compressed to the blue end of the spectrum and that's what happens to light when it's source is moving, it's either Red and coming to you or Blue and going away. Unless Earth is the exact centre of the Universe this should be the case wherever you view it, anywhere in the Universe. Have you heard of Edwin Hubble whom the Telescope was named after? You could look up the Hubble Constant and read about the expansion of the Universe.

I am an amateur astronomer (I use that term loosely) of some 40 years standing.

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all I'm saying is that "if" the Universe were infinite it could hardly be expanding, could it?

No. But it sure as hell could look as though it were expanding from our limited perspective. It may be an illusion. Long way to go in this science.

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Maybe it's only expanding as far as we can see, I wouldn't know about that and I don't know if anyone else would either.

But that is my point!

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nonsense?
why so argumentive? you say that you're an amateur astronomer of many years, what would that tell you of universal expansion and the significance of the redshift?

why do these things seem unknown to you, you are reacting as though you'd never heard of the concept before. I'm being polite, but you should know, it's taken as a Universal Fact by the Leading Cosmologists and Astronomers on this Planet that the Universe is in fact expanding.

it is nothing like the sun rise and set, not at all.

The fact that you have been an amateur astronomer for forty years could mean you got a set of binoculars for Christmas as a kid, what am I to make of that?

If you read, you will not argue with me, you might add something to what I'm saying, but I doubt it will be comments like "nonsense", are you the local standard candle of intellect? Cephiad in-variable?

c.g.

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why not check out any article at this address?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Expansion+speeding++Universe

I'd make it a link but it might get wiped, I don't know if they're accepted here.

you know, you said that I and the sceintists would have said the Universe was contracting a few years ago, but you don't have a clue what I would have said a few years ago, do you?

as a matter of fact I never had that notion at all, I simply read the articles I find in magazines and I watch the Discovery channel and I belong to the local Astronomy club myself, big deal.

c.g.

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Did you happen to see
Any Dark matter in all your forty years of looking up?

nonsense you say?

read it and weep...mr. smarty pants

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I am the center of the universe...

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George

I am making the point that our "beliefs" -- whether religious or scientific -- really should not be presented as facts.

That seems to be bothering you.

Tough!

In any case, if you are going to get in a snit over these kinds of things, at least try to be logical in your arguments.

At the beginning of the post to which I took exception, you wrote:

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...they and I do know that the Universe is expanding...

At the end of that same post, you wrote:

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...Maybe it's only expanding as far as we can see, I wouldn't know about that and I don't know if anyone else would either....

That is my point, George.

Maybe the universe is not expanding and only appears to be doing so -- and we don't know.

Scientists don't even KNOW that the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe -- or merely the beginning of what we, from our limited perspective, consider to be the universe.

Fact is, scientists very recently did not know that the island universe in which our sun is located was not the entire universe. Galaxies outside of our galaxies were not even discovered until the 1920's -- and that is within the lifetime of people currently alive.

Your original statement that the universe is finite -- is blather. It simply cannot logically be stated with such difinitiveness.

You do not know if the universe is finite or infinite. And neither does any scientist on this planet -- no matter what you think.

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There is a difference in the way the concept of "to know" is treated by science, and the way it is treated by philosophy.

In science, the concept of "knowing" implies "knowing beyond a reasonable doubt" based on an assumption of naturalism and derived from empiracle evidence.

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I am making the point that our "beliefs" -- whether religious or scientific -- really should not be presented as facts.

no problem there Frank,

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That seems to be bothering you.

not me Frank,

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Tough!

like your sunbaked mug? or did you mean something else by that word..Tough!

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In any case, if you are going to get in a snit over these kinds of things, at least try to be logical in your arguments.

I'll try, but I wasn't intending on getting in an argument, just shooting the breeze, but then again, I never expected I step on the Astronomical Ego you're Sporting around here Chum!

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At the beginning of the post to which I took exception, you wrote:

what haven't you taken exception to Frank?

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Fact is, scientists very recently did not know that the island universe in which our sun is located was not the entire universe. Galaxies outside of our galaxies were not even discovered until the 1920's -- and that is within the lifetime of people currently alive.

Island Universe in which our Sun is located???? fact is, they did see other Galaxies but never knew that's what they were looking at, I'm sure you must have had a few chat's with Galileo about this?

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Your original statement that the universe is finite -- is blather. It simply cannot logically be stated with such difinitiveness.

is that a definitive fact Frank? are you certain?

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You do not know if the universe is finite or infinite. And neither does any scientist on this planet -- no matter what you think.

is that a definitive fact Frank? hey, I do know that if it's expanding it can't be Infinite Frank and ALL the evidence says it is and ALL the leading Scientists on the Planet say it is and that's good enough for me, no matter how long you've been star gazing Frank, I'm going with the Evidence and the Science, what else is there to base our judgement on ...Frank?

what do you go by, your gut?

c.g.

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You are not Bear . . . i've been polite, so as not to embarrass my friends on the board, but that is just insufferable . . .

I am the center of the universe . . .

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Listen Folks,

it's nice to meet you all, but maybe this is the wrong board for me to find an interesting little chat that stretches my imagination. I'm looking for a bit of fun and to meet some people not to argue and quibble over the meanings of words until I forget what I'm talking about.

hi Bi-polar, I liked your little post, whatever it takes to get you through the night, its alright with me too.

hi Roseborne, I just want to shoot the breeze about science not really philosophical renderings of the different meanings of propositions I may make, does that make any sense to you?

I like it deep but light hearted, nice meeting you, but I guess I'll leave this board for the badger.

c.g.

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Where is the Centre of the Universe?

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