Bibliophile the BibleGuru wrote:According to most Big Bangers the Universe's origin was finite - surely an expanding Universe, after the alleged Big Bang, would still remain finite?
COMMENT:
What most Big Bangers actually assert is that THIS THING WE CALL THE UNIVERSE is finite -- and was the result of a Big Bang.
But almost to a person, the scientists also acknowledge that they do not know if the Bang was just one in a series of infiite bangs -- or if what we perceive to be THE UNIVERESE is only a finite part of a MEGAVERSE with little puny universes coming into existence all the time.
We really don't KNOW -- and the science that is studying the problem is almost brand new.
Frank: you said, "...the science that is studying the problem is almost brand new." which science are you referring to: Cosmological Topology?
Astronomy, Bib.
There are people posting on A2K right now who were alive when we first discovered that the "universe" was not the stars around us. Galaxies were only discovered 70 years ago.
We have no idea of what the UNIVERSE is like. We know a bit about this thing we refer to as the universe -- but like I said -- this thing we refer to as the universe may not be the universe at all. In fact, just as earlier people thought planet Earth was the largest and most significant item in the universe (we appear to be only a small rock) -- the truth may be that what we call the universe may be only a small speck in an infinite megaverse.
You said, "we appear to be only a small rock"
It's the most complex and complete "rock" anywhere in the Universe.
Bibliophile the BibleGuru wrote:You said, "we appear to be only a small rock"
It's the most complex and complete "rock" anywhere in the Universe.
COMMENT:
You know this for a fact, Bib???
You've seen the rest of the universe?
How extraordinary.
Frank Apisa..
Even though Eratosthenes did not see the rest of the earth, he could think the earth was round.
For me, the center of the universe is my home.
c.i.
I do not know about the world, the center would seem to be, well, somewhere in the middle of that whole ball, but i do know for a fact where the center of europe is! the slovak geologists have calculated that the exact geographic middle of europe is in the village of Dilove, right near the church. Hooray! There is only one problem. The Ukrainian and Polish geologists had found two other centers of Europe, in Ukraine and in Poland, respectively! Dang it!
Man is always looking for the most distant point of the Universe, I have been wanting to know the most distant from where, therefore:
Quote:Where is the Centre of the Universe?
Where did it begin?
Frank Apisa..
My reponse was about the following of yours:
Quote:
You've seen the rest of the universe?
How extraordinary.
Satt
If you are saying Eratosthenes could THINK THE EARTH WAS ROUND even though he did not see the rest of the world...
...therefore Bib can look around and say, the Earth is "the most complex and complete "rock" anywhere in the Universe."...
...I would suggest you take a course in logic.
The question remains: How does Bib -- or anyone else -- know that the Earth is the most complex and complete rock anywhere in the Universe?
HINT: (Very big hint!): NOBODY KNOWS IF EARTH IS THE MOST COMPLEX AND COMPLETE ROCK ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE -- and it is as likely that it is a quite ordinary rock as that it is the most complex and complete rock.
WE DO NOT KNOW.
Frank Apisa..
Here, "complex" and "complete" can be thought to be defined in the axiom,
"the Earth is "the most complex and complete "rock" anywhere in the Universe." "
A theorem is the statement that is provable under a system of axioms, and an axiom is itself a theorem trivially.
Please do not tell me about logic in an irrelevant context. Unless I intend a joke of a logical form, I won't abuse logic.
s_f, is everything relative then, is that were you are going with this? nothing given? even the facts are just hypotheses for we know no better? that is one approach. there are others, and I chose to take axioms as final, unless proven otherwise by facts. the theorem talked about thus is testable in theory, only we do not have access yet to the technology that would allow us to do so. therefore i must quite agree with the line of logic frank apisa was following.
correct me if i have misread something in your post.
As far as humans are concerned, "we" are the center of the universe. Unless science proves otherwise, this will continue to be fact/truth. c.i.
satt_focusable wrote:Frank Apisa..
Here, "complex" and "complete" can be thought to be defined in the axiom,
"the Earth is "the most complex and complete "rock" anywhere in the Universe." "
A theorem is the statement that is provable under a system of axioms, and an axiom is itself a theorem trivially.
Please do not tell me about logic in an irrelevant context. Unless I intend a joke of a logical form, I won't abuse logic.
COMMENTS:
Satt, that post was hilarious. Talk about obsfucation! Thanks, I really needed a good laugh today.
Bib said the Earth was the most complex and complete rock in the universe. Unlelss Bib has seen all the other rocks in the universe, he is not able logically to make that statement.
Get over it!
I said the terms "complex" and "complete" were defined (relationally) in the statement of Bib. Logically the definition had no flaws, and intuitively gave some insights.
