8
   

What is Evangelism?

 
 
TheCobbler
 
  4  
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 09:10 pm
@brianjakub,
Your terminology perhaps unconsciously, reveals a double standard and to degrade people then say we are all equal is clearly a contradiction.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 02:13 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

Your terminology perhaps unconsciously, reveals a double standard and to degrade people then say we are all equal is clearly a contradiction.


Spot on.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 02:27 am
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:

I do consider my daughter a natural person along with all other people that struggle through life. I suggest you nhave no idea how I feel about transgender people.


You're comparing being transgender to being disabled. Being transgender is not being disabled. You want to take away the right to serve in the military from transgendered people. When you were asked if you knew any trans people your response was to say that you must know some because of the law of averages. That put me in mind of those on the far right who claim not to see colour. In any event if you do know any transgender people they do not feel safe in confiding in you.

As Cobbler pointed out this prejudice could be unconscious, but there is no denying it. Instead of arguing the toss you could try examining why you have such prejudices and doing something about it.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 08:33 am
@izzythepush,
I don't think transgender people should be segregated out of the military if they pass the medical psychological and physical training tests. I just think it's very hard for a transgender person going through the full transition both hormonally and which surgery to pass the physical. I am comparing a transgender person To a disabled person because if you're a woman and you want to be a man without hormone therapy and surgery you were not able to perform as a man. I thought unable to perform is like a disability. They both have the root word "able" in them .

I don't walk up to people and tell them if I'm transgender or gay or heterosexual. That is not my identity. I am Brian Jakub A man. When I walk up to somebody I asked them their name and usually can tell if they think they are a man or a woman. If the person I am talking to thinks I am confused about their sexual identity I guess they can tell me. That usually isn't a problem in my part of the world. What are they are transgender or not they dress and act like who they think they are.

It is disconcerting to me that we've got the thouhgt police out there that know what I am consciously and unconsciously thinking better than I do. You two are some of the most judgemental people I have ever communicated with. You are right up there with the far right fundamentalist Protestant Christians when it comes to judging me as a Catholic .
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 09:54 am
@brianjakub,
You're still going on about surgery.

All I've done is point out what you've said. If you find that to be judgemental well, there you go.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 10:27 am
@izzythepush,
Doesn’t transgender mean that your physical gender doesn’t match emotional gender. Isn’t that why Bruce Jenner altered his breasts and is on hormone therapy as long as he wants to more physically be a woman? Aren’t medical procedures a major part of being transgender for most transgender people? Shouldn’t these medical procedures and drug therapy to be transgender part of the screening process of the military like any other medical procedure?

Or am I misunderstanding what it means to be transgender? Does it mean you just where clothes of the opposite sex and there are no medical procedures or drug therapy involved? Maybe I am confusing transgender with transsexual.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 01:24 pm
@brianjakub,
You keep on insisting you're right while deliberately misnaming Caitlyn Jenner.

You're only interested in your own narrow definitions, and are oblivious to the offence you cause transgender people. You're not interested in learning anything or changing. I'm not bothering.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 07:22 pm
@izzythepush,
That was a honest mistake, I knew him as Bruce Jenner first. I have 4 boys and a girl sometimes I have to go through the list before I say the right name and the list includes my youngest brother and my sister.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 01:21 am
@brianjakub,
It may well be, but it shows your mindset. You see Jenner as Bruce, a man engineered to appear female, not as a woman who is finally able to embrace her true identity.

Btw, Caitlyn Jenner is not the leader of trans people. Most trans people I know despise her, she's a horrible self centred right wing narcissist.

Yet despite that she deserves to have her gender and name recognised.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 06:47 am
@izzythepush,
Well I don't know if he exactly looks at himself as a woman I think he still has his penis and he said he likes to have sex with women. Maybe he views himself as a man that likes to look like a woman. Maybe you should quit getting into peoples minds and thinking you have them all figured out. Bruce can do whatever makes him happy I'm not going to judge him. quit judging me and him .
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 07:56 am
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:

Well I don't know if he exactly looks at himself as a woman


Really? Changing one's name not enough for you. The part in bold shows that your 'genuine mistake' was a pile of bollocks.

The trans community does not equate gender with genitals despite your insistence that they do so.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 08:04 am
@brianjakub,
The words people use to describe others says a lot about them. One can use neutral inoffensive language or one can continue using vocabulary that they know causes offence.

I try not to offend minority groups by avoiding words that would upset them. You don't, even when it's been pointed out you still continue using offensive language.

You remind me of the racists in the Deep South who would pronounce negro "nigra."

I'm just pointing out what you're doing. If I've got into your mind just by doing that it can't be much of a mind to begin with.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 08:09 am
@brianjakub,
The attitude of people like you has real life consequences.

Quote:
Eight out of 10 trans young people have self-harmed and almost half have attempted to kill themselves, according to a significant new study looking at the experiences of LGBT pupils in schools and colleges across the UK.

The survey of more than 3,700 lesbian, gay, bi and trans young people revealed that while LGBT bullying has decreased in the last five years, its impact on young people’s wellbeing and education is profound.

The findings by equality campaigning charity Stonewall are particularly concerning among trans pupils, of whom nearly one in 10 (9%) have received death threats at school, while 84% say they have self-harmed and 45% have tried to take their own lives.

Stonewall’s chief executive, Ruth Hunt, welcomed progress in schools, but said the report should act as “a wake-up call” to schools and politicians, showing how much more still needs to be done to improve LGBT pupils’ experiences.


https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/27/half-of-trans-pupils-in-the-uk-tried-to-take-their-own-lives-survey-finds

Do you think your deliberate choice of offensive terms makes young trans people more or less likely to commit suicide?
brianjakub
 
  1  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 11:06 am
@izzythepush,
Could you give me some examples of my offensive language
brianjakub
 
  0  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 11:15 am
@brianjakub,
I have never bullied a gay person in my life and I have gay friends. I don't know I might have some transgender friends, I never asked them if they were trans gender or transsexual I just let them tell me who they are and i accept them for who they are.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 01:46 pm
@brianjakub,
You need to ask? Your continued reference to Jenner as Bruce and use of male pronouns is offensive. You've been told that it's offensive and still you persist.

Trans people are not necessarily gay so your dealings with gay people are moot.

I'm not continuing this conversation any more. There's none so blind as those that will not see.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 05:57 pm
@izzythepush,
You're right using male pronouns and Bruce when I should be calling him Kaitlyn is a habit that's hard to for me to break. Add me to be part if I lived around him and saw him every day I'm sure I would have broke it by now.

Habits are not bigotry. They are not conscious decisions. You don't know what's going on inside my conscience. telling somebody that you do know is offensive no matter if they are transgender Christian pagan atheist or whatever. You sound like you think Bruce I mean Kaitlyn is less of a person who because he is a horrible right wing conservative. In the US everybody has a right to believe and say what they want. His right wing views were mainstream 75 years ago. I'd rather be called ignorant than horrible but both are offensive.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 06:16 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:
I knew him as Bruce Jenner first.


Her.

You knew her as Bruce Jenner first.

Her.

If you continue to refer to her as other than female it will be clear that you are doing so deliberately.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 06:34 pm
@ehBeth,
Yea old habits are hard to break especially bad ones. I guess i will have to live with the consequences and be labeled a bigot until i change. Sorry to anyone i offended.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Tue 24 Apr, 2018 01:10 am
@brianjakub,
They're extremely hard to break when you don't make the effort. You used male pronouns straight after I pointed out how offensive that was. That's why I find it very hard to believe that you actually want to change.

When I pointed out how trans people are more likely to commit self harm and suicide you didn't say how terrible that was and that you would try in your own small way to make things better, you become defensive and said you'd not bullied any GBLT people.

Nobody was accusing you of actively going out and persecuting people, but prejudice takes many forms. It's a sliding scale, not all racists are active KKK members, but someone who employs a white person over a more suitable black person is still being racist.

Nobody is perfect, we all do things we regret and could change. If you genuinely want to change, break those old habits, I welcome it, but you need to acknowledge there is a problem in the first place. Minor forms of prejudice, like using the wrong pronouns, have a drip drip effect, and very often it's the little things that push someone over the edge.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 12/07/2021 at 07:16:42