What is Evangelism?

@NealNealNeal,

Neal wrote:

Perhaps you should read God's response to Job. Then read Job's response.

You invoke Job and that somehow magically justifies your genocidal murderous God.

Suddenly your good God becomes evil and his love becomes hate but you are fine with that...

Your love is superficial and easily replaced by hate as quickly as one can blink.

John 10:10 KJV
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Comment:
Is your God also a thief?

Jesus came to bring death, destruction, disease, pestilence, apocalyptic armageddon wars, and wrath, killing babies and animals so he could be worshiped in the new earth as the prince of peace and lamb of God.

Romans 1:22
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Comment:
You can keep your vengeful God.

That is not my God. My God does not need to kill in order to love.

My God does not need the blood of animals...

My God has no wrath...

People make their own wrath which is against the purpose and meaning of God.

They pray for wrath and bring it down upon themselves. God has nothing to do with it.

2 Replies

@TheCobbler,

God's love does not negate His holiness. I accept all of God's attributes.
The apostle who wrote Revelation was "the apostle whom Jesus loved".
I will greatly rejoice if Universalism is true. However, there is no indication of this in the Bible. Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven.
"Just as there are physical laws that govern the physical universe, so are there spirituu laws that govern the spiritual universe".
I can do nothing to change the events of Revelation. In fact I am told that I am not qualified to do so.

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

The human author of Revelation knew that God IS love. He states that in his first epistle.
The human author of 1 Corinthians knew that God is love.
Perhaps you should read God's response to Job. Then read Job's response.

The "human author of Revelation" did not even know if a god existed...or anything about its nature if it did. The human author was guessing...just as you people are.

The "human author of 1 Corinthians"...same thing.

If either of them wanted to suppose "god" is love...fine. If YOU want to suppose "god" is love...also fine.

But to suppose that IT IS SO just because the authors of various books of the Bible say it is so...is just absurd.

1 Reply

@TheCobbler,

TheCobbler wrote:

Neal wrote:
Perhaps you should read God's response to Job. Then read Job's response.

You invoke Job and that somehow magically justifies your genocidal murderous God.

Suddenly your good God becomes evil and his love becomes hate but you are fine with that...

Your love is superficial and easily replaced by hate as quickly as one can blink.

John 10:10 KJV
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Comment:
Is your God also a thief?

Jesus came to bring death, destruction, disease, pestilence, apocalyptic armageddon wars, and wrath, killing babies and animals so he could be worshiped in the new earth as the prince of peace and lamb of God.

Romans 1:22
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Comment:
You can keep your vengeful God.

That is not my God. My God does not need to kill in order to love.

My God does not need the blood of animals...

My God has no wrath...

People make their own wrath which is against the purpose and meaning of God.

They pray for wrath and bring it down upon themselves. God has nothing to do with it.

Here is another great quote from the god of the Bible:

"I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments
for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate
me, down to the third and fourth generation."

Deuteronomy 5:9

The god does not sound all that loving there.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank,
We have been through this before. God is holy. He does not tolerate sin.
In human terms you and Cobbler are good people. However, you have no right to judge God.
If Cobbler wants to pour out his frustrations on me, so let it be. However one day he will be judged by God.

2 Replies

@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

Frank,
We have been through this before. God is holy.

There MAY BE a GOD...and IT MAY BE holy.

We do not know if there are any gods...and we do not know the nature of any gods that might exist.

Quote:

He does not tolerate sin.

Perhaps "He" does not even exist. Why are you insisting on certain attributes of an entity that may not even exist?

Quote:

In human terms you and Cobbler are good people. However, you have no right to judge God.
If Cobbler wants to pour out his frustrations on me, so let it be. However one day he will be judged by God.

I am not "judging" any gods...including the one you think exists.

I am simply pointing out that it is possible that NO GODS exist...so attributing characteristics to any makes no sense.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

God exists, Frank. God exists.

1 Reply

@NealNealNeal,

You have no need for a devil, your murderous bloodthirsty God is both and has usurped that evil place.

And yes, I judge this, just as I judge Hitler and other mass murderers.
As for sin, do you not think God might find fault with you relishing in the death of so many without regard to its real justification or purpose?

Allowing the devil to impersonate your God without you even questioning that as being wrong? It seems the wrath was made for you not those you intend.

The Bible says the laws are written in your heart... but you prefer the laws written by people/authors you do not even really know. You are told that prophecies will fail, but you do not question the evil prophecies. You do not consult your heart because your heart is not functioning. Your heart has been eclipsed by hateful mental possession.

And when God asks you where your heart is, what will you say to him?

What is your justification for following hateful words over the loving words he wrote into your heart? Do you not think the book of Revelation is a test?

1 Timothy 4:2
KJV
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Comment:
Your burnt conscience has eclipsed your heart.

And you will go before God with a haughty spirit, rather than love.

Will God's love be found in you on the day of your judgment?

Or will you receive what is meet, receiving the punishment you have wished upon others. Your punishment at your own hand.

While others are loving and you are hating, what makes you think you are more worthy of God's grace?

Do you even know what salvation is?

Some may refuse to bow to God, but some will bow to evil, which is worse?

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank, I understand your position.

Don't' throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We are meant to discern spirits and find the ones that are of good report.

Some verses wrongly attribute evil personalities to God and we are supposed to know the difference.

You know the difference... And that is all that matters.

1 Reply

@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

God exists, Frank. God exists.

I understand that is your blind guess.

Others blindly guess differently.

0 Replies

@TheCobbler,

TheCobbler wrote:

Frank, I understand your position.

Don't' throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We are meant to discern spirits and find the ones that are of good report.

Some verses wrongly attribute evil personalities to God and we are supposed to know the difference.

You know the difference... And that is all that matters.

My position is:

I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.

(When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)

I feel that is the strongest, most honest, most reasonable position to take.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I feel the same way as you Frank.
Creation needs no God necessarily but if there is one, fine.

But a jealous, barbaric and vengeful, manically egotistical God, I reject.

While others don't bat an eyelash.

This is more revealing of their deviant character than they may be aware of.

1 Reply

We have the books of I and II Kings and I and II Chronicles.

In these books the same stories are told but one set of books tells the stories from a human perspective and the other set of books tells the stories from God's perspective.

In the human perspective it says "God smote them with the sword".

And in God's perspective, "They fell upon their own swords".

God does not actually participate in murder and wrath.

Nefarious people are more than willing fall upon their own swords.

Evil consumes its host.

0 Replies

@TheCobbler,

TheCobbler wrote:

I feel the same way as you Frank.
Creation needs no God necessarily but if there is one, fine.

But a jealous, barbaric and vengeful, manically egotistical God, I reject.

While others don't bat an eyelash.

This is more revealing of their deviant character than they may be aware of.

My description of the god of the Bible is contained in my description of my best guess about the Bible.

My best guess, for what it is worth, is that the Bible is a self-serving history (of sorts) of the early Hebrew people...a relatively unsophisticated, relatively knowledge lacking, superstitious people who had many enemies in the areas where they lived. Their enemies worshiped barbarous, vengeful, wrathful, unforgiving, demanding, murderous, petty gods. And to protect themselves from those gods, the early Hebrews invented an especially barbarous, vengeful, wrathful, unforgiving, demanding, murderous, petty god...and worshiped it. They put their sensibilities into the mouth of that god...so all that vengeful, vindictiveness, and pettiness became part of the makeup of the god.

Sounds as though we agree on that also, Cobbler.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

My description of the god of the Bible is contained in my description of my best guess about the Bible.

My best guess, for what it is worth, is that the Bible is a self-serving history (of sorts) of the early Hebrew people...a relatively unsophisticated, relatively knowledge lacking, superstitious people who had many enemies in the areas where they lived. Their enemies worshiped barbarous, vengeful, wrathful, unforgiving, demanding, murderous, petty gods. And to protect themselves from those gods, the early Hebrews invented an especially barbarous, vengeful, wrathful, unforgiving, demanding, murderous, petty god...and worshiped it. They put their sensibilities into the mouth of that god...so all that vengeful, vindictiveness, and pettiness became part of the makeup of the god.

Sounds as though we agree on that also, Cobbler.

Yes, we agree on that as well Frank.

I will add that nothing is "perfectly" wrong or right.

Nothing is meritless or flawless.

So, there will be some merit in the vast array of imperfections and pitfalls in the Bible.

On the same token we can find flaws and merits in Life, Look, Time, The Reader's Digest and The Saturday Evening Post...

In these cases, we clip out what is true, and the rest goes in the garbage or gets folded into a magazine tree.

(Give it to Oralloy and he will try and flush it down the toilet.)

Considering, the Bible claims of itself to be a source of spirituality, the very few passages that might truly be insightful may be especially illuminating to those in search of spiritual definition. Where this precise spiritual definition might expectably be missing from other publications.

Separating the wheat from the chaff in such a book might require real heart, soul, mind, and spirit...

Perhaps therein lies its true purpose.

The search for the holy grail is not a quest for the weak and easily dissuaded.

Perhaps there is a profound mystery buried deep within the laughable malarky and foolish portrayals of a beast of a God.

In amongst the thorns there may very well be some spiritually nourishing quality fruit.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank,
You have expressed the view of the secular humanist. You are entitled to your opinion. In so doing you deny Romans 1:19.
Jesus warned Christians about people like Cobbler in Matthew 7:6. So be it.

1 Reply

@NealNealNeal,

Neal wrote:

Frank,
You have expressed the view of the secular humanist. You are entitled to your opinion. In so doing you deny Romans 1:19.
Jesus warned Christians about people like Cobbler in Matthew 7:6. So be it.

It seems you have given your God over to the dogs instead.

To the detriment of your own soul.

0 Replies

Seditious ringleaders all in concert with the puppet master.

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1 Reply

@coluber2001,

coluber2001 wrote:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7pnPlQLcY&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Yeah, it is a religious cult.

Sorta like the Manson Family...only with fewer morals.

1 Reply

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