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What is Evangelism?

 
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2019 12:53 am
@coldjoint,
No religion has had a "renaissance", including Islam.

After the Renaissance rational people marginalized all religions for science, naturalism, secular governments and reason...

Only the idiot republican types want to drag us back into the mire of barbaric dogmatism and theocratic governments.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2019 02:42 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

No religion has had a "renaissance", including Islam.



There wouldn't have been a Renaissance were it not for Islam.

Quote:
During the high medieval period, the Islamic world was at its cultural peak, supplying information and ideas to Europe, via Andalusia, Sicily and the Crusader kingdoms in the Levant. These included Latin translations of the Greek Classics and of Arabic texts in astronomy, mathematics, science, and medicine. Other contributions included technological and scientific innovations via the Silk Road, including Chinese inventions such as paper and gunpowder.

The Islamic world also influenced other aspects of medieval European culture, partly by original innovations made during the Islamic Golden Age, including various fields such as the arts, agriculture, alchemy, music, pottery, etc.

Many Arabic loanwords in Western European languages, including English, mostly via Old French, date from this period. This includes traditional star names such as Aldebaran, scientific terms like alchemy (whence also chemistry), algebra, algorithm, etc. and names of commodities such as sugar, camphor, cotton, coffee, etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2019 03:39 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
There wouldn't have been a Renaissance were it not for Islam.

Revisionist history, there would not have been a Dark Age without Islam. Here is the truth.
https://thereligionofpeace.com/pages/myths/science.aspx
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2019 07:13 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
There wouldn't have been a Renaissance were it not for Islam.

Revisionist history, there would not have been a Dark Age without Islam. Here is the truth.
https://thereligionofpeace.com/pages/myths/science.aspx

The article you linked doesn't support your contention.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2019 08:26 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
The article you linked doesn't support your contention.

This guy is. Watch the whole thing and tell me where he is wrong. I can hardly wait. I suggest everyone should watch it.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2019 11:12 pm
@izzythepush,
I voted up your post from zero because I highly value your point of view Izzy but I to some degree differ.

It is true the Muslims in Spain brought culture and art to Europe but the radical Islamic Moors saw to its speedy demise. They were pushed out of Spain because a once liberal Islam became radical.

Catholic monks also unwittingly had a hand in preserving ancient literature.

Yet...
It was the naturalists of France and the artisans and traders of Florence (traveling troubadours) that ushered in the Renaissance that had a lasting impact on the world.

This is perhaps why France is often despised in modern Islam and Christianity.

Not much is known about this time because writing was forbidden but it was traveling gypsies and troubadours that spread theater and art across Europe, not Islam and definitely not Catholicism.

The traveling gypsies became such a powerful force in Europe that Catholicism had to try and emulate their success with their own "pageant wagons".

The Catholic pageant wagons were not as successful... The feudal common folk saw them for what they were, a power grab by a failing church.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2019 11:55 pm
@TheCobbler,
Martin Luther tried to "democratize" religion which also failed when the mobs rose up, rioted and looted the churches.

Religion never got its place back with the masses.

Religion never will again rule the masses as long as thinking, reasoning and rational people have a say in government and social justice.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 03:43 am
@TheCobbler,
The Moors were just one group, but they relied on desert dwelling mercenaries who were far less cultured and where most of the problems started.

We wouldn't have had Oxford and Cambridge universities were it not for the Moors.

We wouldn't have had a Renaissance without Islam. Troubadors spread the news, they didn't have much of an impact academically.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 12:51 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
We wouldn't have had Oxford and Cambridge universities were it not for the Moors.

TOTAL BULLSHIT!
Quote:
In fact, the litany of “Muslim” achievement often takes the form of rhapsody, in which the true origins of these discoveries are omitted - along with their comparative insignificance to Western achievement. One usually doesn't hear about the dark side either. Those who brag about the great observatory of Taqi al-Din in [freshly conquered] Istanbul, for example, often neglect to mention that it was quickly destroyed by the caliphate.

At the end of the day, the record of scientific, medical and technological accomplishment is not something over which Muslim apologists want to get into a contest with the Christian and Jewish world. Today’s Islamic innovators are better known for turning Western technology, such as cell phones and airplanes, into instruments of mass murder.

To sum up, although the Islamic religion is not entirely hostile to science, neither should it be confused as a facilitator. The great achievements that are said to have come out of the Islamic world were made either by non-Muslims who happened to be under Islamic rule, or by heretics who usually had little interest in Islam. Scientific discovery tapers off dramatically as Islam asserts dominance, until it eventually peters out altogether.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/myths/science.aspx
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 07:45 pm
@izzythepush,
Troubadours spread culture and trade, no movement can be successful if it does not get itself into culture.

Where is all of the Islamic art in Europe?

Yes, we got the alphabet and Spain has some mosques and a few Arabic words here and there spatter our English language but Islam "religion" did not root itself indelibly into European culture.

There is a almost a deliberate vacuum of Islamic "religious" culture in Europe.

If Islam was responsible for the Renaissance the European landscape would be full of religious culture regarding Islam.

Europeans admired Islamic culture and religion from afar and with hesitancy.

As for Christian culture in the Renaissance. It seems like this was an after thought where Christianity was imposed upon a Renaissance world that would rather have gone its own way.

The emergence of secret societies and the pagan influence in the church seems to tell another story as to what really was motivating and captivating the hearts and minds of the Renaissance people and it really was neither Christianity nor Islam.

Free thought and the overthrow of religiously linked monarchies reveal the fact that the people were fed up with clerical rule and they did not perceive it to be the ultimate truth of their time.

Not unlike Jefferson and Franklin of the American Revolution era who also were deists and not avidly inclined towards Islam or fundamental Christianity.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 08:25 pm
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
Jefferson and Franklin of the American Revolution era who also were deists and not avidly inclined towards Islam or fundamental Christianity.

Jefferson fought Islam. Hence the Tripoli in the Marine anthem. How ignorant are you?
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 08:47 pm
@TheCobbler,
When Paganism spread from Babylon to every corner of the earth it was not spread by the sword and it was not spread by fear of inquisition...

It was spread by word of mouth, by reason and deductive rational.

It was pantheistic so it harmonized with nature and all things natural.

Contrarily Islam and Christianity were theistic and monotheistic so they had to be imposed by wars, fear of inquisition and the sword.

Egypt's Akhenaten learned the hard way that imposed monotheism would end his own linage and reign and nearly wipe his memory from the face of history.

Hebrew monotheism and Islamic Monotheism were also imposed upon the world by the sword and holy war/jihad.

Where monotheism was strictly imposed upon the masses, the Renaissance emerged from the dark ages and science emerged, theater emerged, social justice emerged, democracies emerged, philosophy emerged, and many other secular disciplines... But, religion came out looking like a many eyed beast from the pits of hell.

Its true nature was exposed and the barbarity of its legalism was paraded naked down the streets of every municipality in the world for all to see.

Region emerged hobbling on one leg and it has never recovered neither it is ever likely to have its own "Renaissance"...

Because it was never adopted with free will by the masses it was always imposed upon them by fear and intimidation.

Look at what the masses supposedly did to Jesus who tried to impose monotheism.

It took a public shaming and a position of martyrdom for the first century church to adopt the teachings of Jesus. They were shamed into adopting it.

Once again it was spread by nefarious means.

It was then used as a tool by the Roman Church to rule the people from the elitist's top down.

Monotheism is the enemy of democracy and the people.

Monotheism is a tool used to dismiss democratic rule over theocratic rule.

The Renaissance people knew this and rejected these forms of tyranny outright and refused to become shackled by this same yoke of bondage.

Whether it be monotheism under the guise of Islam or Christianity they abhorred its absolute truths and its edicts of supremacy.

This is why today, there are two subjects you never discuss in public... politics and religion.

Religion has been coupled with sociopaths and crooked government.

The truth is, most people prefer discussing politics far better than religion.

The fear and loathing of religion is what emerged from the dark ages and continues up into modern times.

The more enlightened people become the less religious they are.

This is not to say that paganism or pantheism did not have their barbaric faults but they were faults brought on by democratic errors in judgement by the masses, not faults imposed by a "higher power" and carried out by the elite.

Pagan priests and shaman were "people ordained", not God ordained...
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 08:49 pm
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
It was pantheistic so it harmonized with nature and all things natural.

What a bunch of crap. Laughing Laughing Laughing
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 08:59 pm
@coldjoint,
You know crap when you see it? Not likely...

Pantheism is where god is part of nature rather then the creator of nature.

An education is not a thing to waste...
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 09:07 pm
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
You know crap when you see it? Not likely...

If you claiming to be an expert on crap I won't argue with you. Laughing Laughing Laughing
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 09:17 pm
@coldjoint,
You not knowing crap in a President... I believe you.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2019 09:51 pm
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
You not knowing crap in a President... I believe you.

Do not let someone convince you Islam has contributed to anything but hate. They wrote a whole book about it and deny it, the same way you use religion when it is convenient. It is something anyone can do, but promoting an intolerant violent culture only enables it.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2019 03:24 am
@TheCobbler,
Did you not follow the link? The Islamic world was advanced in fields of medicine, science, mathematics and had kept the works of Greek philosophers safe. Spain was the centre of learning in the medieval world.

If you want to pretend none of that happened it's up to you, but it did happen.

Lots of wars prior to monotheism too. Battle of Marathon between Pagan Greeks and Persians, Carthage, the Pyrrhic Wars not to mention Alexander the Great's conquests.

Interesting you choose Art(painting) as your fall back. Is it because you know that for many Muslims portraying God's World especially the human body is seen as blasphemous which is why most Islamic Art is abstract designs and patterns.

Here's the link again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe

Don't dismiss the contribution Islam made to science out of hand, it makes you sound racist, and I know you're not.
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2019 08:23 am
@izzythepush,
I am not disagreeing with your contention that both Islam and Roman Catholicism fostered math, science medicine and architecture in Europe... This was after a revolt by the people brought on by traveling gypsies and troubadours. What I am saying is that religion was not one of the disciplines that saw a Renaissance... on the contrary it was demeaned and the religions of the ancients were actually preferred over Islam and Christianity by medieval artists and common folk.

It was the church and its tithe money that imposed Islamic and Christian religion on artisans.

Fertility cults, mysticism, shamanism, superstition, witchcraft, paganism, alchemy, astrology... these were the ways of the gypsies and troubadours.

Grimm's fairy tales come from ancient oral traditions that demonstrate that the minds of the Renaissance people were far from Islam and Christianity.

Sure, people took science as a given but when it came to religion they rejected that imposed monotheism for a more democratic take on spirituality.

The allure of Egypt and the Babylonian wonders swayed more on their minds than a monotheistic tyrant who had no time for merriment and leisure.

There were thousands of Christian monasteries in Europe but the people still resisted their religious influence.

And if Islam preserved the Greek culture, then could it not be said that the Greeks ushered in the renaissance?

Pythagoras golden ratio and Plato's philosophy?

Christianity and the Roman Church was also there in ancient Greece in the first century where Islam did not even begin until the 7th century.

By the 5th century the Benedictine order alone boasted 37,000 monasteries...

But it was not enough to convince the average European to willingly convert.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2019 09:40 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

And if Islam preserved the Greek culture, then could it not be said that the Greeks ushered in the renaissance?

Pythagoras golden ratio and Plato's philosophy?


None of it would have been known were it not for Islam.
0 Replies
 
 

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