What is Evangelism?

If God does have a view it is more than probable it is not reflected in the Bible.

No respectable God would contradict scientific fact.

Definitions are not narrow or wide. Either words have definitions or they become meaningless.

In the USA especially where I live, your view would be a minority view.

You can call it something else when consummation can't happen. They don't call them birth parents and put them on the birth certificate when they adopt do they? But, they can still be a family, and it can still be good, without changing the definition of the words "marriage" or "birth parent".

Mathew 9:3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to [c]divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Mark 10: 5 But Jesus said to them, “[c]Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. 6 But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. 7 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother[d], 8 and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 10 In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. 11 And He *said to them, “Whoever [e]divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; 12 and if she herself [f]divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.”

1 Corithians 6:13Yet the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body. 14 Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “The two shall become one flesh.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the [j]immoral man sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a [k]temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from [l]God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Marriage Like Christ and the Church
Ephesians 5:22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church [q]in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body. 31 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. 32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she [r]respects her husband.

Gen 2:18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper [o]suitable for him.” 19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the [p]sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the [q]sky, and to every beast of the field, but for [r]Adam there was not found a helper [s]suitable for him. 21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The Lord God [t]fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 The man said,“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called [v]Woman,
Because [w]she was taken out of [x]Man.”
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

In the beginning it was understood that the act of consummation was the ceremony with God as the witness and a participant by bringing a new soul into the act as the two became one new flesh by forming a family through the flesh of the child.

Even today the priest does not the participate in the sacrament of marriage in the Roman Catholic Church only the couple being married can perform the marriage sacrament. Instead he is only a witness and celebrant. It is the only sacrament a Roman Catholic priest cannot perform and only lay couples of the opposite sex can because consummation is part of the sign of the sacrament.



He called her his sister because she was his half sister and he was a coward who wanted to avoid being slain.

Nature is fallen. Perfect nature does not contradict God and Jesus is the Word of God become flesh.

Feelings don't always reflect reality but, physical things are always real.

Actually he offered to bake them a blank cake. He thought words and symbols mean things and by having him decorate the cake he felt he became a participant in a marriage act that his conscience wouldn't allow him too.

So, it wasn't about the cake but actually, it was about the words on it and the gay couple was trying to force him to say words he could not agree with.

A true man of love, compassion, wisdom and understanding
https://www.facebook.com/detroitfreepress/videos/191862591465721/

Nowhere on Google are any "words" mentioned in this case as being requested on the wedding cake. Do you just make this **** up?

Could you please post the exact words they requested or a link corroborating that?

If you mean having to stick two grooms on top instead of a bride and groom well, that is what a gay wedding is...

I don't think I have ever seen a wedding cake with words written on it.

Maybe an anniversary cake or birthday cake, but wedding? No.

All a bakery has to do is write a disclaimer that says they do not personally represent any meaning derived by the customer's cake requests.

It is not like they asked them to bake a cake in the shape of a phallic or a pentagram shaped goat's head....

I personally would not want a gay wedding cake made by homophobes anyway.

So couples who can't have children can't be considered married, neither can those who marry late in life.

Definitions of something can be wide or narrow because people put their own definitions and definitions change with time. You don't seem to understand that. If that was not the case we'd all be speaking Anglo Saxon.

O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?

Today everyone who first comes across Juliet's speech believe she's asking where Romeo is, she not. She's asking why the man she's fallen for has to be Romeo, a Montague, sworn enemies of her clan, the Capulets.

If Shakespeare was writing today he would never use the word wherefore.


Btw, I don't think attitudes in the Bible belt are those of American society at large.

Even within Abrahamic religions the definition of marriage changes. In Islam polygamy is allowed. The Koran has a far greater claim for divinity than the Bible. The prophet was illiterate, yet he was able to write the Koran. It was written in Arabic which is both visual as well as phonetic. It's claimed that it was dictated by Gabriel and is perfect, that the symmetry of sound and vision matches up in a way that no human could reproduce. Muslims say that if anyone doubts it they should try to do their own perfect Arabic script and nobody has.

Now, I'm no scholar of Arabic, and I've not met a secular scholar to verify these claims, but it's a far cry from the glaring errors and downright lies in the Canonical Gospels.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius

I don't think it was a mistake, I think it was a deliberate attempt to shoe iron Jesus into Old Testament works. A deliberate lie.

You keep going on about Common Sense. Wouldn't Common Sense dictate that a document whose divinity has yet to be disproved has more credence than one that is full of deliberate lies and distortions?

In any event, the Christian definition of marriage is just one of many. It is very narrow and there's no evidence that it's remotely divine.

Muhamed did not claim to be the God that created the universe. Jesus did. He didnt lie.

Which does not address any of the points issued. The chroniclers of Jesus, the canonical ones at least, clearly manipulated events to fit in with earlier prophecies. It's all second/third hand information anyway, not only is there deliberate misinformation but there's also an element of Chinese Whispers and exaggeration. We don't really know what Jesus said, if he even existed.

What we do know is that in the twilight of the Roman Empire it obtained a new state/crowd control religion that enabled it to spread its influence throughout Europe even when it was militarily insignificant.

Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Creator

1. Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2. Matthew 26:39
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.
Jesus’ will is likewise autonomous from God’s Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God’s will.

3. John 5:26
For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jesus received his life from God. God received his life from no one. He is eternally self-existent.

4. John 5:30
By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.
Jesus says, “by myself, I can do nothing.” This indicates that Jesus is relying upon his own relationship with God. He is not trying to “please myself” but rather is seeking to “please the one who sent me.”

5. John 5:19
The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son does also.
Jesus declares that he is following a pattern laid down by God. He is expressing obedience to God.

6. Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
Here Jesus emphatically makes a distinction between himself and God.

7. John 14:28
The Father is greater than I.
This is another strong statement that makes a distinction between Jesus and God.

8. Matthew 6:9
Our Father, which art in Heaven.
He didn’t pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!”

9. Matthew 27:46
My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

10. John 17:21-23
. . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. . ..that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me.
In this prayer Jesus defines the term “to be one.” It is clearly accomplished through the relationship of two autonomous beings. Christian believers are to model their relationship (to become one) after the relationship of God and Christ (as God and Christ are one). Notice that “to be one” does not mean to be “one and the same.”

11. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Paul declares that God put everything under Christ, except God himself. Instead God rules all things through Christ. (remember: “through him all things were made.”)

12. Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.
Jesus is the exact representation of his being. I send my representative to Congress. He is not me, myself. He is my representative.

13. Hebrews 4:15 (compared with James 1:13)
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet without sin.
Jesus has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he never sinned. See

James 1:13: When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt.
Jesus was tempted in every way, but God cannot be tempted. This is why Jesus said, “don’t call me good, none are good, only God.”

14. Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Jesus had to walk a course of faith and obedience in order to achieve perfection. By achieving perfection, Jesus “became” the source of eternal salvation

Comment:
Can any man be his own father? Was Jesus the husband and son of Mary?
When Jesus prayed openly to God, was he praying to himself?

Contrarily, there are only a couple of vague verses that seem to infer that Jesus may have been God...

But that is what some people do is magnify the unclear verses above the ample amount of clear verses so as to bend the meaning their own way.

Was/is Jesus God?

The Bible is very clear that Jesus was not God, but it has a few verses that could be twisted and construed that he is God.

Perhaps you might try actually reading the Bible Brian.

I personally must be honest and admit according to what I have read that Jesus purportedly said, himself, that he wanted people to understand that God was in agreement with him but, was a separate a distinct entity than Jesus. "Clearly" the Bible indicates that Jesus was not God but I reserve some doubt... because, the Bible does have its occult hidden meaning that could indicate otherwise.

The Bible is a book of mysteries and the truth is often not what it seems which is an oxymoron at best..

Why does the Bible contradict itself? Many have tried to understand this.

Perhaps it contradicts itself so people are less certain of believing in things that have no viable evidence to back them up.

US Christians Think God Looks a Lot Like Them
https://www.livescience.com/62798-how-american-christians-perceive-god.html

...and homeless people envision God to look more like a trashcan or dumpster. (cynical)

I heard it discussed on TV. Here is a quote from the court's decision where words were discussed. I might have jumped to a conclusion from the TV discussion.



It does appear the commission was not impartial when it came to religious beliefs and the court said that was unconstitutional.

I let the Roman Catholic Church interpret the teachings of Christ. Jesus gave them the authority through Peter as the first bishop of Rome.



Could be. That's why we have a constitutional amendment process and a legislative branch of government, to determione the attitude of those in American society. Should we let the courts pick our president too and stop having elections?

John 1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

The Witness John
6 There [c]came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 [d]He came [e]as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 [f]He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

9 There was the true Light [g]which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [h]own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of [j]blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

The Word Made Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh, and [k]dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of [l]the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

When God the Father thinks of an Idea, the words that express that Idea are the Living Words of God the Father. Jesus is the Word that appeared as atoms as all things came into being through HIM.

Then the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. He was still the words that expressed the Ideas of God the Father but now we could see and converse with Him. Can't get much more intimate.

So Jesus doesn't exists as a Word until God the Father thinks of an Idea He wants expressed. God the Father always needed Words to express His Ideas so Jesus the Living Word always existed with Him.

You are created in the image of God. Your body expresses your ideas so I can understand them in the same way Jesus expresses God the Father's. Your body and your mind are separate things but act as one. Then I need to understand the spirit of your words to get the true meaning. It is the same way with God and the Holy Spirit to obtain His true meaning.

That is how I understand the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church on the Trinity.

You keep going off on totally irrelevant tangents. You wouldn't be doing that6 if you didn't already realise you'd lost the argument. Courts don't make the law they interpret it.

Your beliefs about Jesus the church and Peter are just beliefs. They're no better or worse than anyone else's beliefs. What about the Orangemen? They're equally fervent in the belief that the Pope's the antichrist.

Maybe we should follow that 'logical' assumption.

I am open to any point of view. I am not providing my beliefs. I am providing arguments and evidence to support my beliefs. Provide your argument and evidence for Orangemen and we will see how logical it is.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I don't support the ******* Orangemen I gave them as an example of a deeply held Christian belief that directly contradicts your own.

Then again if you think an institution that sold indulgences, gave us the Borgias, a pope who supported Hitler and subjected thousands of children to physical, mental and sexual abuse is divine then logic isn't really your thing.