A modest proposal

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After poking around A2K for a few weeks -- particularly here in the Film forum -- it seems to me that we have a need for a Movies forum separate from the Film forum. I've seen several examples of questions that seem much more focused on engaging the Art House crowd rather than the 22-screen multiplex throng. No doubt many A2Kers can and do straddle the not-so-fine line between film and movie, but I have to say that there seems to be a lot more references around here to The Seventh Seal than to The Sixth Sense.

So how about it, plain old movie fans? Have you seen some A2K film questions that seem like they require a MFA to reply? Don't know your Bronenosets Potyokim from your Poseidon Adventure? Never made it through an Ingmar Bergman film without wanting to slit your wrists? Can't tell the difference between walla and jutter but you know full well that the films of Werner Herzog are self-indulgent, over-rated crap? Then I want you to get mad. I don't want you to protest, I don't want you to riot, I don't want you to write to your congress man, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about all the film talk, the Griffiths, the Riefenstahls, the Russians, or the talking over our heads. All I know is that first...You've got to get Mad! I want you to go to the keyboard, get your fingers in the ready position, stick out your chest and type: "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore! I want a Movie forum for Movie fans!"

Thank you for your consideration of this modest proposal. My apologies to Ron Shelton and Paddy Chayefsky.

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Ah, I hear you, but IMO, film buffs and movie mavens CAN coexist in the same forum. As for myself, I stopped critiquing on the last day of my Film 101 course.

I think that when composing a thread in this forum, we need to make it very clear as to the sort of discussion we want. I think that if we do that, the thread will attract the kind of film or movie goer for whom we are seeking!

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Tim K

I rather like them all mixted together! Very Happy

We can always pick with threads we want to be involved with & which to ignore.

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I suspect, Tim, that you're more familiar with the, ahem, cinema than you let on, but that's OK--I got a kick out of your post and your challenge!

Guess I agree with those who say no separation is needed. In truth, I rarely pay attention to which general topic a discussion falls under. I just go for the discussions that look interesting. Admittedly, there are those with such exquisite sensibilities ( Rolling Eyes

) that one sometimes feels too inadequate to join in. Yet those refined individuals can be fun to tweak...

So, Tim, bash on regardless--I'll look forward to your posts!

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Cool, dissension in the ranks!

I can't say that I'm mad as hell, Tim. Sorry. I just don't contribute to threads about topics that don't interest me enough to put in my two cents.

I will admit that I'm more of a movie fan than a film fan, though. Very Happy

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I don't dismiss the more commercial product if it has a good script, direction, acting, et al. The concept might be the most important aspect whether it's a popcorn movie or an art house film -- the point is, do I enjoy it. There are many films which try to take the high road and end up in an allley with the trash cans. There are also many films of not very profound ideals that are substantively entertaining. I think one has to consider the genre, the apparant goal of the film and the fact that you left the theater reeling or left the theater to get a piece of cake or a drink and forget what you just saw.

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Don't segregate! Miscegenate!

(As it were.....)

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I think the film/movie split is kinda like books/literature.

Almost every movie i've seen in the last 2 decades made my want to slit my wrists. Film was even worse. That's why i stay away from that whole area of discussion. I keep wanting to say 'don't you people realize it's all dreck'. Maybe different styles of dreck, but dreck.

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Interesting that this and "Who's your favorite cinematographer should pop up at the same time... Not leading a dual existence, are we, Mr. King?

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Since, in the past, I have watched movies strictly for entertainment value, I usually can't reply with any degree of expertise to film as an art form; however, rewatching some movies that I saw as a youngster has given me insight into what really is involved in the production, etc. For example, Mr. Wizard's last feature, "Written on the Wind" was interesting to me in the light of Ebert's critique, but it is not a film that I would rent or buy.

I am always slightly reticent to read the critique first, since I do not want it to color my own thinking.

I think that one should always look at any art form holistically, and after the fact.

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Golly, ehBeth, what movies are people dragging you off to see?
I agree the 80's was a poor decade for films (goes along with having a mediocre actor as Pres?) but there were a few great ones, the 90's improved and with independent filmmakers beginning to shine through, things are looking up.

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Hmmm...this is not going the way I planned. Here are the tactics I must now consider:

1. Wander the frozen streets of Philadelphia with pint bottles, my laptop and a wireless modem, offering liquid reward and A2K membership to hundreds of homeless drunks in exchange for their vote for a Film-free Movie Forum,

OR

2. Make a seven-figure contribution to the National Republican Committee in exchange for official Presidential endorsement for maintaining the Film Forum in its current form, declaring such a forum vital to advancing our planned war with Iraq.

Hmm, feed the evil addictions of fall down, urine-soaked drunks or Republicans? Now, that IS a tough call.

But it doesn't have to come to that. You have the virtual power to stop such extreme responses before they start. All you need to do is vote Yes for Freedom! Vote Yes for Jim Carrey (okay, maybe not for Jim Carrey)! Vote Yes for Jennifer Lopez and Drew Barrymore! Vote Yes for a Movie Forum for Movie Fans!

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Um, Tim, which poll option did you choose?

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I didn't vote, as you probably surmised from the totals to date. I had hoped that the blatant need for a separate Movie forum would be so obvious to even the most casual observer that I could maintain a modicum of dignity and avoid endorsing my own idea. Sadly, my hopes are now dashed.

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Ah, Tim!

I hate that supposed split between Art & "entertainment"!
Literature & mere "novels". (Dickens & Shakespeare were once mere entertainment for the masses.)
Film & movies ...
Why go down that path Question

Why not just enjoy what you enjoy & leave the rest?

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Hey, Tim. Go for it! Create it yourself...nah...no one will tar and feather you here... Laughing

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Why, msolga, why? Because cinematic elitism in a forum like this one is tantamount to -- dare I say it -- censorship! Suppose you are a fan of the fine teen comedies of the 1980s. Naturally, at some point you're going to want to discuss the socio-economic influences that transformed a delightful comic romp such as Porky's (or Chez Porky, as it was called in Canada) into the self-important snoozefest that was its sequel, Porky's II: the Next Day. It's only logical, right? But just try to pose such a question here! At best, you'll be ignored. At worst, you'll be ostracized. Branded. You'll carry a virtual scarlet letter of shame for daring to sully a "film" forum. And you'll never post a movie question here again.

That's what this fight is all about, people. The right to say "Wasn't Samuel L. too cool in Pulp Fiction?" The right to admit "I was never so bored as that time I went to see 2001: A Space Odyssey." The right to proudly proclaim "I only liked Last Tango for the sex and even then only when Brando wasn't in the shot." Rights. Basic human rights. Isn't that worth fighting for?

Vote "Yes" for a separate Movie Forum. Thank you.

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Gee, Tim, I'm gonna weep here in a sec. That's poignant, man! But I think I already voted. Can one undo a vote already cast?

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Tim

I understand what you're saying. I guess I just didn't realize that (maybe) some folks have been actually intimidated by the film discussions. I seem to have missed out on something here. (Maybe they're not the ones I've participated in? Confused

)
I certainly don't like the idea of anyone here feeling put-down for their tastes or opinions & wouldn't condone that at all.
I appreciate your democratic stance but hate the idea of ANY A2K forum being divided into highbrow & lowbrow ... Them & us Crying or Very sad

It just seems a shame, that's all ...

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Tim, there aren't many intellectual elitists around A2K in the film forum because they may think they are elitist but they have yet to prove they are intelligent. I would encourage you to post discussions on popular movies -- I just put in the next entry of the Ebert Great Movies and it is a 50's film that is high class soap opera and aimed at a the popular audiences of that time, "Written on the Wind". It inspired "Far From Heaven" which is not an arthouse film. The next entry is likely going to be "Woman in the Dunes," which is more esoteric for the usual movie goer. There's room for it all and nobody should shy away from praising popcorn movies they like. "Pulp Fiction" is a bridge film -- it has it's artfullness in the positive sense but it's filled with elements of popular cinema. Tarentino succeeded in putting his ideas across in a popular idiom.

I know the old mantra that "film" or "cinema" means the snob-appeal arthouse and movies mean the usual local multiplex fare.
That doesn't hold water with me and I think that's why Ebert lists many arthouse films in his book and on his site as "Great Movies."
Not "Great Film" or "Great Cinema" but Great Movies.

There are rules of decorum on this site so if anyone is attempting to insult you in veiled criticisms, please report it. We can't catch them all. Bear in mind that if someone disagrees that something is as great as you think it is, they do have to perogative of a reasonable rebuttle but it should be specifically what they don't like about a movie, not putting down your taste.

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A modest proposal

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