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Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:26 pm
phpBB (the underlying base code for this site) is excellent but was not made to handle the size to which we have grown.
I have long been hacking away at their code and fixing certain issues but we are swiftly approaching the point where drastic action will need to be taken to keep the site online.
There are a number of ways I will need to approach it and I am announcing this here because it will likely result in some changes to the forum that you will notice.
Here are the first things I will be targeting:
1) Eliminating the test forum. The prune it does is a load issue and it is undesireable otherwise.
2) Eliminating or reducing the ability to edit posts. The editing of posts takes a long time because it is running some very load intensive queries on the wordmatch table (the data table that tracks words for the search feature).
Because of this the edit feature may be restricted by time (e.g. only editable within x minutes of the post) or turned off entirely (possibly temporary, untill a more fundamental rewrite can address it).
3) Crippling search. Searching itself is not a big problem, but maintaining the wordmatch table for the feature is. I do not yet know of any large phpBB site that got away with huge forums and threads and still maintained a fully functional search. We will try to do this with some alternate measures and temporary fixes as we do not want to turn off the search feature until absolutely necessary.
4) The new topics page will come down untill it is rewritten.
5) Thread views may cease to be counted or at least be modified in a way that would reduce the load at the expense of a slight reduction in accuracy (using a mathematical equation to update on a random basis but update by the random range. The net effect would be something like updating 3 views for every third view instead of opening the table to write each view).
6) The quick reply feature may be eliminated. This is unlikely but if it is done it will have the aim of reducing the quick one-liners and making people post more subtantially in exchange for less frequency.
7) Viewing who is online might be eliminated temporarily, this is because it can serve as a stopgap measure and be restored with no data loss while measures against searching would represent data loss for the wordmatch table.
My time is very limited these days and I do not know if I can do all of this myself.
If I do not find time for this to be done, I will have to hire someone to do this and may open donations again to cover this.
All of the above is still uncertain (except that some big changes are needed) and this is just a heads up that it is coming.
Thanks for the advance notice! And good luck. I sure do wish I could help somehow (besides donating).
Understood and appreciated. Maybe I need to up the quarterly amount. Will wait to hear.
None of those proposed changes will cause me any consternation, Craven.
Do what you gotta do, when you can, and let us know what we can do to help.
Re: Measures to handle forum size need to be taken
Craven de Kere wrote:Because of this the edit feature may be restricted by time (e.g. only editable within x minutes of the post) or turned off entirely (possibly temporary, untill a more fundamental rewrite can address it).
I think the time limit is a good idea, in any case.
Ditto what PDiddie said. Just let us know whatever we can do to help.
For one thing - I'll try to start previewin' more, so as to cut down on my editin'. I really gotta do that anyhow.
Re: Measures to handle forum size need to be taken
roger wrote:I think the time limit is a good idea, in any case.
So do I, and for the same reasons you have expressed in the past.
Re: Measures to handle forum size need to be taken
Craven de Kere wrote:6) The quick reply feature may be eliminated. This is unlikely but if it is done it will have the aim of reducing the quick one-liners and making people post more subtantially in exchange for less frequency.
I'm going to miss the "A2K melee"-type threads, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
I dunno that I've ever used quick reply. With dial-up there's just not much point.
Thanks. Good luck in making the adjustments.
Can deal easily with all but the edit change, but will get used to it, can see it's reasonable to cut down besides lowering phbb, or whatever you call it.
Will contribute monetarily as needed.
And, thanks.
Please do not reduce the editing feature. Otherwise, "anything" goes.
Re: Measures to handle forum size need to be taken
Craven de Kere wrote:1) Eliminating the test forum. The prune it does is a load issue and it is undesireable otherwise.
2) Eliminating or reducing the ability to edit posts. The editing of posts takes a long time because it is running some very load intensive queries on the wordmatch table (the data table that tracks words for the search feature).
Because of this the edit feature may be restricted by time (e.g. only editable within x minutes of the post) or turned off entirely (possibly temporary, untill a more fundamental rewrite can address it).
3) Crippling search. Searching itself is not a big problem, but maintaining the wordmatch table for the feature is. I do not yet know of any large phpBB site that got away with huge forums and threads and still maintained a fully functional search. We will try to do this with some alternate measures and temporary fixes as we do not want to turn off the search feature until absolutely necessary.
4) The new topics page will come down untill it is rewritten.
5) Thread views may cease to be counted or at least be modified in a way that would reduce the load at the expense of a slight reduction in accuracy (using a mathematical equation to update on a random basis but update by the random range. The net effect would be something like updating 3 views for every third view instead of opening the table to write each view).
None of these changes would bother me in the least.
CdK wrote:6) The quick reply feature may be eliminated. This is unlikely but if it is done it will have the aim of reducing the quick one-liners and making people post more subtantially in exchange for less frequency.
7) Viewing who is online might be eliminated temporarily, this is because it can serve as a stopgap measure and be restored with no data loss while measures against searching would represent data loss for the wordmatch table.
These changes would substantially affect how I use A2K, but do whatever you have to do.
CdK wrote:My time is very limited these days and I do not know if I can do all of this myself.
If I do not find time for this to be done, I will have to hire someone to do this and may open donations again to cover this.
Just let us know. We're happy to help out.
Thankee - donation at the (almost) ready when/if needed.
Thanks for the infos - and like satt, I would miss the editing function, but please do what you think must be done!
Re: Measures to handle forum size need to be taken
Craven de Kere, thank you for letting us know. I certainly have no problem with donating when/if you need it.
As to the 7 items listed, there are 2 I hope will be kept: editing and thread view counts.
The Test Forum's Auto Prune is nice, but if its load on the server is excessive, then I see droppin' it as a no-brainer cost/benefit call. Quite a bit of what's done there can be dealt with in the Help Forum, I figure, and you can always use "Preview" to verify an effect or a link works - that's sorta what its there for.
I'm thinkin' an incremental update - say every 3 or 5 views - of thread view counts wouldn't be much of an inconvenience, nor would time-limiting the edit feature - it seems to me the most common reason for an edit prolly is seein' an error immediately after postin'. There are exceptions of course, but I imagine those really are pretty rare. Unlimited editing is nice, but not essential, the way I see it.
Eliminatin' "Quick Reply" would impact me directly; its the way I enter almost all of my posts, whether I type right into it or paste into it from an external text app - but I can live without it.
I'd sure hate to see "Search" curtailed; that I'd find damned inconvenient - I use it a bunch. Still, if its gotta go to keep things runnin' in general, its gotta go. The bells-and whistles are nice, but they're just frills - its the folks and the discussions which keep me here.
And I certainly have no objection to stuff like a pledge drive or to enhanced-feature paid subscription services.
Will miss Quick Reply and Search--but taking one for the team.
Whatever you have to do to keep us up and running!
Let us know about the donations. Checkbook's open, pen's in hand.
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