Reply
Sun 16 Jan, 2005 03:53 pm
By Paul Andrew Bourne, BSc. (Hons) Economics and Demograpy
Based on the creation of contemporary religiosity that argues that men are dominant, natural leader, protectors of the (the states, society, the family) universe, peoples with that ideology have constructed a social belief that they forward as an ontology. But, is this really the case; and why have women, despite the advocacy of feminist organization, not forge partnership that would gradually eradicate this male dominated world.
Women continue to sit idly by, wait for men to promote thier interest and share power equally with them. Despite the conscious effort of many women the approach is unstructured, lethargic and lack cognitive depth.
If this world is to forge any transformation by it old methodologies of done things, under the men's governance, this concept will never change as they will subtly utlize schemes in order to further thier dominace instead of foster any meaning change of what exists.
When will the women of this world congregate in an effort to stop this present "madness" of male dominance and female marginalization.
I believe that with the casual nature of women, they will always be marginalized by men in society.
Do you share those sentiments and if not, state why?
I don't know where you get this from, but women in the US don't have this issue. If they do could you please be more specific in which areas this is happening in.
Men have a higher drop out rate in College then women do and girls routinely do better in school at all levels. Please be more specific.
"Educating the Educated mass"
By Paul Andrew Bourne, BSc. (Hons) Economics
When one looks at the dropout rate of men in the educational system in many societies and contrast this with number of senior positions of females in corporation, public life and critical managerial positions, men outnumber women.
Therefore, who are the marginalized group in society?
Paul, Did they teach grammar at your college?
Discussion is Good
Paul Andrew Bourne, BSc. (Hons) Economics
Despite your indepth perception of grammar, let me hasten to correct your inadequacies.
Based on your sentence structure, "Did they teach grammar at your college" it is unambiguously clear that the depth of your language is woefully inadequate. Because your correction should have been, "Was grammar taught at your college?"
georgeob1 wrote:Paul, [d]id they teach grammar at your college?
That's an interesting post.
I think this discussion started out wrapped around an axle, and is fast headed for a ditch.
Of course, I also don't agree with Paul about "woeful inadequacies."
Re: "Educating the Educated mass"
paul andrew bourne wrote:By Paul Andrew Bourne, BSc. (Hons) Economics
When one looks at the dropout rate of men in the educational system in many societies and contrast this with number of senior positions of females in corporation, public life and critical managerial positions, men outnumber women.
Therefore, who are the marginalized group in society?
While I can't speak for other societies, I can talk for the US and there is not much of an issue here. Women are getting into high positions and even opening their own business. How many women enter into the business world only to leave when they begin to have families? I happen to know quite a few that don't want to be in high positions because they would rather have families and stay at home. Have you taken this into account?
Re: "Educating the Educated mass"
Baldimo wrote:While I can't speak for other societies, I can talk for the US and there is not much of an issue here. Women are getting into high positions and even opening their own business. How many women enter into the business world only to leave when they begin to have families? I happen to know quite a few that don't want to be in high positions because they would rather have families and stay at home. Have you taken this into account?
This is what one could call a hasty generalisation. You are basing your conclusions on a few women (and confirmation bias has not even been factored in). I don't dispute that women are getting into high positions and are becoming entrepreneurs, but so what? If you want to prove that it's not an issue in the US, you're going to have to come up with something better than that.
Re: "Educating the Educated mass"
VooDoo wrote:Baldimo wrote:While I can't speak for other societies, I can talk for the US and there is not much of an issue here. Women are getting into high positions and even opening their own business. How many women enter into the business world only to leave when they begin to have families? I happen to know quite a few that don't want to be in high positions because they would rather have families and stay at home. Have you taken this into account?
This is what one could call a hasty generalisation. You are basing your conclusions on a few women (and confirmation bias has not even been factored in). I don't dispute that women are getting into high positions and are becoming entrepreneurs, but so what? If you want to prove that it's not an issue in the US, you're going to have to come up with something better than that.
If your going to prove that it is an issue then you will have to do so. In doing this you will also have to show why this is an issue and what can be done to fix it. To make a generalization that women are suffering with being second-class citizens without a cause is assumption and we all know what happens when you assume.
I work for a major telecom/cable TV Company and there is no shortage of women in high positions. In fact in both the call centers I worked in, the very top people in those centers were both women. In fact the regional person in charge was a woman. Out of the 20 or so supervisors in the building I work in almost half are women. So from a personal perspective of being in a major company I don't see what you are talking about.
Re: "Educating the Educated mass"
Baldimo wrote: If your going to prove that it is an issue then you will have to do so.
No, I don't.
Quote: In doing this you will also have to show why this is an issue and what can be done to fix it.
Again, no I don't. Even if I bothered to prove it is an issue, why do I have to offer a solution?
Quote: I work for a major telecom/cable TV Company and there is no shortage of women in high positions. In fact in both the call centers I worked in, the very top people in those centers were both women. In fact the regional person in charge was a woman. Out of the 20 or so supervisors in the building I work in almost half are women. So from a personal perspective of being in a major company I don't see what you are talking about.
I can probably explain your confusion there. You see, I haven't actually talked about anything other than take exception with your last post. Paul posited an excellent question and you did little to answer it (I suspect though, it was more rhetorical than anything else). That was all I was alluding to.
What assumptions have you made?
"We all know what happens when you assume."
Re: "Educating the Educated mass"
VooDoo wrote:Baldimo wrote: If your going to prove that it is an issue then you will have to do so.
No, I don't.
Quote: In doing this you will also have to show why this is an issue and what can be done to fix it.
Again, no I don't. Even if I bothered to prove it is an issue, why do I have to offer a solution?
Quote: I work for a major telecom/cable TV Company and there is no shortage of women in high positions. In fact in both the call centers I worked in, the very top people in those centers were both women. In fact the regional person in charge was a woman. Out of the 20 or so supervisors in the building I work in almost half are women. So from a personal perspective of being in a major company I don't see what you are talking about.
I can probably explain your confusion there. You see, I haven't actually talked about anything other than take exception with your last post. Paul posited an excellent question and you did little to answer it (I suspect though, it was more rhetorical than anything else). That was all I was alluding to.
What assumptions have you made?
"We all know what happens when you assume."
If you are unable to prove your point about women in American society then you have no point. You can't just look at an issue and guess what the problem is, like men keeping women down, you need to look at the women themselves and see why they havn't been able to advance. This will show what a common or root problem truly is.
Re: "The marginalization of women"
paul andrew bourne wrote:By Paul Andrew Bourne, BSc. (Hons) Economics and Demograpy
Based on the creation of contemporary religiosity that argues that men are dominant, natural leader, protectors of the (the states, society, the family) universe, peoples with that ideology have constructed a social belief that they forward as an ontology. But, is this really the case; and why have women, despite the advocacy of feminist organization, not forge partnership that would gradually eradicate this male dominated world.
Women continue to sit idly by, wait for men to promote thier interest and share power equally with them. Despite the conscious effort of many women the approach is unstructured, lethargic and lack cognitive depth.
If this world is to forge any transformation by it old methodologies of done things, under the men's governance, this concept will never change as they will subtly utlize schemes in order to further thier dominace instead of foster any meaning change of what exists.
When will the women of this world congregate in an effort to stop this present "madness" of male dominance and female marginalization.
I believe that with the casual nature of women, they will always be marginalized by men in society.
Do you share those sentiments and if not, state why?
Well, your first error is blaming this on what you call "contemporary religiosity" which is flagrantly untrue. This attitude of male dominance over women, and the belief of their superiority to women dates back thousands of years. As for the rest of your post, I don't believe a damn word, and refuse to address it, really. A perceptive person can see that your argument is completely full of holes. I don't know where you live, but in North America, women are not nearly as complacent or 'marginalized' as you might expect. Now, if you want to make this a discussion of the marginalization of women globally, that is an entirely different kettle of fish, and you should have been more specific about that in the original post. Sweeping generalizations do not make a good thesis.
Male Dominance over women?
Belief of men's superiority over women in North America?
Quote:Women continue to sit idly by, wait for men to promote thier interest and share power equally with them. Despite the conscious effort of many women the approach is unstructured, lethargic and lack cognitive depth.
I have a few words for ya..."Honey, you've never met me, or half these women in A2K."
I'm going to assume a couple of things Paul. May I call you Paul?
1 You were educated in Jamaica(A Levels etc)
2 You've never lived in the United States.
I absolutely love when people post their educational levels or claim to have spoken to an 'expert' in a field as if claiming it gives some sort of validity to their arguements.
All I can tell you Mr. Paul Andrew Bourne, BSc. (Hons) Economics and Demograpy is that your opinions on women and their role in society must be either based upon some sheltered, ivory tower existance you have led, far from the real world or you are trying to be some sort of provacateur to make yourself look:
a) Intelligent
b) Educated
c) In touch with women's 'issues'
d) Faking being in touch with womens 'issues' in order to 'pick up chicks'
I will admit that throughout history, women have been protected, sheltered and yes, 'marginalized' in some societies.
This is due to some basic realities that many men and women don't like to face:
The history of humankind is one of war and violence. This is one of those unpleasant facts that academics don't like to talk about.
War and violence in the past, required muscle power, aggression and the willingness to do violence to one another. In this, men are better equiped to accomplish this than women. They are, on average, bigger, stronger and better able to do this violence than women. This is one of those unpleasant facts that feminists don't like to talk about.
Now, in the Western World, with the taming of the wilderness and the advent of modern weapons and machinery, the need for bigger, stronger people to carry forth society has been reduced. In this society, women have the opportunity to come to the fore. They no longer have to work from 'behind the scenes' and use their influence to 'nudge and coerce' the men to do their bidding, they can do it themselves and Western society now encourages them to do so...
Summed up...
You think that women are somehow marginalized?
You never met my girlfriend, my 5 aunts, my sister, my 7 female cousins, my nieces and many, MANY strong vibrant and incredibly amazig women I have met here in America and the U.K.
Try going outside and talking to women in real life instead of some computer generated chat (wo)men on AOL.
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