Indonesia to US get out!

Dlowan: Na, they're A-holes all right. If we meant to do them harm, there isn't a damn thing they could do about it anyway so that's an irrelevant talking point. Our entire East Coast is going to be wiped out by a Tsunami in the not so distant future (an island is going to collapse and create the worst disaster in our history.) and if I'm still around I'll do what I can to see that any politician who squabbles about who should help and how long doesn't get re-elected. The part I agree with is that their bitching should have no bearing on our efforts to help.

Roger: I couldn't agree more and I think we should stay as long as we're needed. It's the loudmouths in their government that should be ignored. Earlier, someone suggested we pull out over the ingratitude which is a suggestion I find preposterous. The A-holes that don't know how to say thanks, aren't the people we're there to help in the first place.

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In three months time there won't be anything left for the troops to do.

The Indonesians are just making sure nobody gets any funny ideas. Given some of the funny ideas us lot have had recently I can't say I blame them.

The whole thing is a non issue.

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Probably. They'll be years getting back to anything like normal, but outside help might not be a help at all.

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I also agree with dlowan, squinney, and bill. They do appreciate the help and it's not fair to blame them for wanting to get their country back ASAP. I think that by March, they will be equipped to handle what's left to be done. I'm sure their government along with all the people appreciate all the help and didn't intend for this to be taken personally. They simply want to take over as soon as they are able and try to get things back to as close to normal as they can. I don't understand why some people don't get that.

au
Why did you crazy ass government spend billions of dollars in a bogus war killing innocent people, when they could have used that money to help their own poor people?
Have a heart! This isn't suppose to be about politics, but I guess with some people, everything is about politics, eh!

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Adrian wrote:

In three months time there won't be anything left for the troops to do.

The Indonesians are just making sure nobody gets any funny ideas. Given some of the funny ideas us lot have had recently I can't say I blame them.

The whole thing is a non issue.

I agree.

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roger wrote:

Probably. They'll be years getting back to anything like normal, but outside help might not be a help at all.

Yep.

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Adrian wrote:

In three months time there won't be anything left for the troops to do.

The Indonesians are just making sure nobody gets any funny ideas. Given some of the funny ideas us lot have had recently I can't say I blame them.

The whole thing is a non issue.

yep.

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In three months time there won't be anything left for them to do? What makes you think that? Look at Bam... still trying to recover a year later and with much less destruction.

The American military were willing to rebuild roads in Aceh. That's what they were expecting to do and that's what those big ships were capable of doing.

You can say that we have "funny ideas" but, to me, it is not too funny to let that poorest outpost of Indonesia remain strewn with rubble so that Jakarata can feel "safe." Nobody has said anything here that makes me change my mind. I still see the Indonesian government as ingrates and suspect that since it was their arch enemy, the freedom fighters of Aceh who were devastated by the tsunami, they have no problem leaving them in the rubble.

From today's Washington Post:

Quote:

But Indonesian sensitivity over the presence of foreign forces prompted the Marines to scale back plans to land hundreds of troops on Aceh's west coast to help rebuild roads, clear rubble and restore infrastructure.

After long discussions with the Indonesian government, the U.S. military called off plans to base the Marines on land. Instead, smaller numbers of Marines are going ashore by day to help with relief and returning to their vessels off the coast in the evening. The Marines' primary task is now ferrying humanitarian workers and food from the amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard.

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I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it but one of the Indonesian concerns is that Islamic militants may attack the troops and that the US will feel compelled to respond (and maybe stick around for another round). That could escalate to a nasty situation within their country.

This is a legitimate concern but Indonesia has not used much tact and diplomacy about it.

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Yes - I raised that there were real security concerns - and that the government is realistically concerned about them - the other point - which I only touched on tangentially - is that the government is trying to keep the more militant among its mainstream population onside - not to have them becoming angry with the government for letting the troops in. Sigh. It is a big, complex, country to manage - with a brand new president, with a shaky ruling style, given that the place has been essentially a dictatorship until the last few years, when it has had weak presidents - much beholden to the military and with a fairly new terrorist fringe to manage, too.

Yes - they aren't very tactful!

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Speaking of tact, the US government was tactful about this and thankfully we have people mature and knowlegable enough in our government to understand the nature of the situation and not take it only as being scorned.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Speaking of tact, the US government was tactful about this and thankfully we have people mature and knowlegable enough in our government to understand the nature of the situation and not take it only as being scorned.

AMEN!!!!!

(And take that anyone who thinks I never have anything positive to say about the Bush Admin.!)

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Piffka wrote:

In three months time there won't be anything left for them to do? What makes you think that? Look at Bam... still trying to recover a year later and with much less destruction.

The American military were willing to rebuild roads in Aceh. That's what they were expecting to do and that's what those big ships were capable of doing.

You can say that we have "funny ideas" but, to me, it is not too funny to let that poorest outpost of Indonesia remain strewn with rubble so that Jakarata can feel "safe." Nobody has said anything here that makes me change my mind. I still see the Indonesian government as ingrates and suspect that since it was their arch enemy, the freedom fighters of Aceh who were devastated by the tsunami, they have no problem leaving them in the rubble.

From today's Washington Post:

Quote:
But Indonesian sensitivity over the presence of foreign forces prompted the Marines to scale back plans to land hundreds of troops on Aceh's west coast to help rebuild roads, clear rubble and restore infrastructure.

After long discussions with the Indonesian government, the U.S. military called off plans to base the Marines on land. Instead, smaller numbers of Marines are going ashore by day to help with relief and returning to their vessels off the coast in the evening. The Marines' primary task is now ferrying humanitarian workers and food from the amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard.

Very reasonable on the surface Piffka.

BUT

what we have to realise is that the invasion of Iraq has left lots of Muslims really believing that the US (and Oz and the UK) are really out to destroy them

And why - given the debacle in Iraq - should they be shat upon for thinking this?

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Interesting!

Top Official in Aceh Says Foreign Relief Welcome
Indonesians Soften Stance on Outside Military Assistance

By Alan Sipress
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, January 14, 2005; Page A13

JAKARTA, Indonesia, Jan. 13 -- A top official in the tsunami-battered province of Aceh said Thursday that he saw no problem with foreign military forces remaining in Indonesia for as long as they are needed to help with relief and reconstruction efforts.

The comments by Azwar Abubakar, the province's vice governor and acting chief executive, reflected continuing confusion over Indonesia's attitude about receiving outside assistance. Two days ago, officials in the capital, Jakarta, said foreign forces must leave the province by the end of March.

"If they wanted to help our house and that takes, say, two years, then it's okay. It depends on the need," Abubakar told reporters.

The United States and at least nine other countries have dispatched members of their armed forces to support relief efforts on the western end of the Indonesian island of Sumatra, where 110,200 people are estimated to have died in the Dec. 26 tsunami. About 8,000 U.S. troops are in and around Indonesia; all but about 300 are based on ships off the coast, according to U.S. officials.

On Thursday, the Indonesian foreign minister, Noer Hassan Wirajuda, appeared to soften the remarks of other senior officials, including Vice President Jusuf Kalla, whose insistence that foreign forces depart within three months struck some diplomats and military officers as unnecessarily abrupt.

"You can rest assured that we welcome . . . even foreign troops. Their presence is based on our request," Wirajuda told reporters during a visit to the German capital, Berlin. But he said nothing about revising the three-month deadline.

U.S. Ambassador B. Lynn Pascoe, stressing that there has been no friction with Indonesia over the military deployment, said U.S. forces would leave as soon as the Jakarta government decided their work in Aceh was complete.

"We are going to be there as long as we are needed," he said at a news conference at the embassy. "We don't intend to be there a minute afterward."

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, headed for South Asia on Thursday, said: "For any country, it's sensitive to have foreign troops on your territory. It would be sensitive in the United States, and I can tell you that it is extremely sensitive in Indonesia. What's remarkable is that it has caused no problems to date."

In Aceh, international relief workers continued to seek clarification of a new Indonesian requirement that foreigners register with the government before traveling outside the area surrounding Banda Aceh, the provincial capital, and Meulaboh, the main west coast city.

The U.N. special coordinator for tsunami relief, Margareta Wahlstrom, met with Indonesian authorities in the province in part to determine how the requirement might affect relief operations, according to U.N. officials. The United Nations said in a statement issued later that foreign groups were required to register at Abubakar's office in Banda Aceh and that their requests would be processed by the regional police chief.

Indonesian officials have offered conflicting statements about whether foreign groups could be barred from certain areas of Aceh, the scene of a long separatist rebellion, or be required to travel with military escorts. Some U.N. and private aid organizations have balked at the escorts proposal, saying such an arrangement could jeopardize the independence of relief activities.

Dozens of relief workers have already registered with the government. U.N. and U.S. officials have reported that their operations have not been hampered.

Indonesian officials have said their intent is to protect foreigners from the separatists. Rebels of the Free Aceh Movement have pledged not to attack foreign relief workers and called on the government to settle the conflict through negotiations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6338-2005Jan13.html?nav=rss_world

And now I find myself agreeing with something Wolfowitz says!!! (See the bit in italics.)

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There'll be lots left to be done years from now, Pifka, but once the immediate crisis is past, they are probably best off working it out themselves. That's only a viewpoint, and three months may be cutting it a bit fine, but after some point, they can, and should, work it out themselves.

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good morning ms. buns...just a side note...last night in Clayton, a Raleigh bedroom community of less than 8000, we raised over 2000.00 for tsunami relief...and a few girls touched my ass!!!! A win win situation......

Indonesia to US get out!

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