Trip to Italy, Part 1--Bologna, Venice, Parma

Did I forget to post the link that forecasts the extreme worst days for travel to
- Venice, Parma etc (May 29-30),

- Florence and Tuscany area (May 31-June 3),

- Rome area (June 4-8)

- Amalfi coast--Sorrento, Naples, etc. (June 9-12) ?




You are doing a good job re planning, kicky, I think!!!

Throw a little research on Verona, Vicenza and Padova! On the train to Venice, you could maybe choose one or two of these spots to do a drive by. I think Verona should be exquisite then: there is the Giardino Giusti that should be in flower! And if you just stop off at Padua, check your bags at the station, you can bus/stroll to the Scrovegni Chapel and see the Giotto frescoes! You could pretty much return and continue to Venice and do Padua fully later, but the frescoes are really worth it.

But I just realized you only have two days for Venice, so forget the side trips, you'll need every minute of your time there! Much to much to see and do!

Will your side tripping from Florence be car or train/bus? I believe Siena, a wonderful side trip and Lucca, are closer served by bus than train-but it does take longer. Again, Florence is packed with things to do, but Lucca is divine and Siena a very different divine.

On your trip from Florence to Rome by train, I'd rec. a stopover in Orvieto. It's so much fun to take the funicular up to the hill town, and when the day trippers leave, it's a sweet town to stroll around.
You don't have to stay the night there, but it would be a nice break.

I think the Naples/Sorrento part seems a bit intense in terms of things to do. If you aren't going to visit Pompei or Ercolano, it would be more leisurely, but sad to miss this oppty. I would train from Rome to Naples, switch to the Circumvesuviana (local train) and go to Sorrento as a home base. The next morning, visit the Naples Archaelogical museum or hang out there, and in the afternoon on the way back, stop at Ercolano. You can see a sizeable amt. there and it's not as crowded as Pompei.

You can then decide if you want to do Pompei (it will take a full day) or bus around the peninsula to the Amalfi Coast. Stop off at Amalfi, quick visit, then up to Ravello to see the gardens up there: Villa Cimbrone and...the other one :-) ahh, so sad when the mind goes. Take the boat back to Positano and then bus back to Sorrento, or stay the night in Positano, back to Naples for a last day there and then back to Rome.

See. It's a lot to do.

gee, what's up with this computer and the double posts?? Couldn't be operator error, could it?

Actually, Naples is not a must for me. I'd like to get a Napolitean pizza, but Capri is really the main point of interest for me on that part of the trip. I'd like to do Pompei too, but really, that leg of the journey is going to be all about slowing down the pace and relaxing in paradise, in my mind. I'm not sure if I should actually stay on the island of Capri, or just take a day trip there though.

Oh, I have another question...how much does the train cost? I looked in Frommer's and I looked online, but they have so many different special passes, I'm kind of confused. Plus, I tried to find a train going to Parma on www.raileurope.com, and it said that wasn't one of the cities on the line.

Rick Steves' has a whole part of his site dedicated to passes, and you can by them through him and find out clearly the differences and costs.
http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/rail_menu.htm
You can get his free Rail Pass Guide or just download it--it's very complete and up to date.

Yea, if you're doing Capri, you'd best slice out a lot of the remainder of the south. Like maybe do Capri and Pompei as a side trip from Sorrento, then the Amalfi Coast. Still a lot in 3 days...I recall there was a place on the fodors forum about a great place to stay on Anacapri...anyone remember?

Wait a minute...I think I just found the answer to my question on another site. Any of you guys ever hear of www.ricksteves.com?

Oh, I see you have heard of it! Ha ha!

Don't you want to rent a car kicky?
You'd be more mobile that way.

I thought about that, but this trip is already going to cost me about twice what I figured on when I first decided to do it, so for now, that's out. Once I figure out the details a little better, I'll see where I stand. I might reconsider, depending on how good I can budget this thing out.

I think for the first trip...depending on the age of the parents, Kicky might want to stick with the train.
But I'm with Calamity--if only on the Tuscan leg, if you stayed Oltr'Arno (across the Arno, not so touristy and very wonderful place), you could pick up a car and drive out without being fearful of the crazy intown Florentine driving.
Oltra'Arno--great site--
http://www.firenze-oltrarno.net/ Not sure I'd do their tours etc., kind of expensive, but fun for basic info.

Anyway, it would get you to and from Siena and Lucca quickly! And on the way to Lucca, you could stop off and take another funiculare up to Montecatini Alto!

LoisLane has heard it all..
I agree with her points, as usual.
And that's three of us who like and recommend Orvieto.

On getting to Siena, I've done it by train, there is a wee 10 minute change at whatsit, the etruscan town Chiusi, and that small train takes you in to Siena, a not very long trip, passing Montepulciano..sigh. But that's a wine town, never mind, I know you're not a wine fiend.
Or, from Firenze (blanking) there might be a change at Empoli. Arriving at Siena, the station is at the bottom of the hill, and then you hop a bus to town.

So.. if your time is short, Orvieto can be arrived at right on the Firenze-Roma line; the town is less complex to me than Siena but still an interesting, beautifully sited hilltown. You might think about skipping Siena if you are cutting corners. I was only in it for a half hour on my first trip, to cash a traveler's cheque (glad those are near obsolete now), longer the second trip, longer the third.

Walter's worry list could be smart to attend to; I have no clue of the reasons for the dates and places, never having been in italy between May 1 and Oct 1. At the least it might be a clue to reserve hotels in those cities.

Frankly, Venice is not that high on my list. I guess I differ there with Lois, who likes it but knows it much better, and others. I thought it was like Disneyland when I saw it, but that was after a near week in Rome. I've gotten inclined to like it since by reading, not quite the same thing. But Ravenna and Padova and Verona interest me.. (Verona for the ampitheater and piazza, not Juliet's balcony.) Haven't seen them so can't say at all.

I'd even consider skipping Firenze (the death knell tolls, it's most people's favorite place.) Sodden with tourists. I'd go there in March sometime, but that's me. The last time I went there, those four days in April, I stayed at a nifty hotel on my favorite piazza, but mainly walked out of the key tourist areas, since I'd seen them before.

As much as I am for booking ahead when there are a lot of places to cover, I'm also for punting if you don't like a place, and rearranging your time if you do. Thus, I didn't cotton to Ivrea (piazzas for orange hurling), practically ran away, and stayed much longer in Lucca and Firenze on the last trip. One can make phone calls.. or just leave and wing it.

On rail passes, I never figured out how a pass could save me money, even tabulating the last trip. I just bought a ticket for the next place when I arrived, say, at Lucca. I've only reserved first class once; it is, I think worth it, for the fastest train from Rome to Milano, those seats get booked up - otherwise I always ride second class.

Maybe people who have traveled more first class would vouch for it. A reservation can cut down worry (your hotel can make it, I think, or I guess you can do it online, dunno) and your parents might enjoy it. I've never tried to reserve a seat in second class, not sure if you even can. Occasionally you have to stand. It's not the end of the world.

kicky, if you're on a tight budget (and Italy can get expensive) than book all hotels through www.hotels.com
and preferably don't stay in the big cities like Milano.

expedia has great offers on flighs/hotels/rental cars.
You might check that one too.

I like hotels.com too, have used it in US. I like their set up, at least locally, you can often see a photo(s) of the place.

And that may be where I got the great deal on flight and hotel together recently in SF.

On staying in big cities, depends on the person. I can see not wanting to, staying in a burb and training in and back.
Their transportation system is so soooo so much better than ours, multiples better than LA's is.
I can also see skipping big cities all together, or just doing one, that could be very smart, especially as high tourist season commences,

Me, I love cities as much as I love rural, they feed my brain, but I don't go at high season. I didn't think end May early June was at tourist max, but it might be nearing it.

This reminds me. When you land in Milan, you don't land in Milan. From the US, you land at Malpensa, usually. It's a train ride or long taxi ride to the city. I once tried to find local small places to stay, with no luck, but info is now more available on the internet. At this point, arriving from NY, which is a much shorter flight than from west coast US, I'd consider taking the train to the next place, be it Parma, or Modena, Bologna, Ferrara, wherever, and skipping Milan. But I've only been in Milan an afternoon, extending my train changing into a short visit.

Kicky may have a interest in the city, thinking of a computer graphics job or something like that..

You can also leave your bags at the station, should you feel energetic, zip over to the Duomo station (mere minutes) and see the cathedral, the galleria, and la scala in one shot, and zip right back and out of Milan. In my case, I also stopped for cappuccino in the duomo piazza.

I think staying in Milan might be like going from New York to New York.

Weirdly, I would consider turning things around. When I first landed in Italy, it was in Rome, we were exhausted, and a whole new world washed over me, I was sort of frozen in place with tired joy.

Thus, one could land in Rome and leave from Milan... possibly bypassing some of Walter's bad days list.

I just checked hotels.com for Parma, since I spent time researching Parma yesterday at lots of sites. It's interesting, it gave more hotels than TripAdvisor, but they were all over the emilia romagna region, including in Modena and Bologna, so while it had some of the same parma hotels, none were right in the city and there were less in the locale. Also, the Starhotel du Parc was a little bit less on the hotels.com site - but this time I checked two rooms, three people, having run into only a few yesterday that had triples, so they're not quite equivalent numbers. Hotel Button, which I gather is the main hotel in the heart of the city, wasn't listed.

This isn't saying not to use one site or the other, I'd look at both - T/advisor was much more site specific.

edit to say T/advisor also listed a cheaper hotel by the station, possibly handy.

I see I need to tie up my typing fingers, I can't seem to shut m'self up. Perhaps I'll try to skip a day or two. (I got off work early due to wild coughing part of a cold.)

I was always driving into Italy, except once to Milano,
so I don't know much about the airports there.

Once we've driven through Switzerland into northern Italy
(Lake Como) - Milano - and all over the toscany on just
10 days I believe. We had a blast checking out every
winery there is, hehe.

I think ossobuco, we need to escort kicky to Italy to
make sure he's getting the best of Italy to see.

Unfortunately I'll be going to Munich and Prag in June,
so I won't have time in May.

My turn, after osso's tired fingers and loislane's extensive posts.

I totally disagree with Osso about Venice, and am frankly stunned about her Disneyland comment. Disneyland is fun fake. Venice is beautifully awesome!

Milan may not be the most touristy place in Italy, but it has much more than details. Much more than Parma, to say the least. The Rosa Hotel is good. I stayed there in 2002.

Gotta agree about Orvieto. Definitively worth a side trip. Not so sure about Siena: though breathtaking, it's a little bit off road, IMHO.

Overall, I think you are trying to cover too much for the first trip.
Rome is worth at least 4/5 days, if you're in a hurry (in the "if it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium" kind of mood).
The South is much more hectic than what one might imagine (those "dolce vita" images can be deceitful).
Capri is a nice tourist trap. Little more. Ponza (off Gaeta) is more like the real thing.
If you go to Naples and miss Pompei, it's a capital sin (yes, take the Circumvesuviano).

Okay, my brain has officially gone into information overload mode. Not that I don't appreciate all the info on the other places, and I will come back and read through all these suggestions again, but it's too much for my little brain to take in at this point. I'm going to focus on only Milan and the surrounding area right now.

My head hurts.