Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 02:53 pm
I was going to add something or other here, but you've all already said everything that I was going to say. Just let Francophones know that you're from south of the border and they'll bend over backwards to be nice to you, as soon as they realize you're not one of those uppity Anglophones from Ontario.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 02:54 pm
Just thinking - the whole concept of the term joual would be an interesting discussion. We'd need a few more Canadians, as well as people interested in the linguistics and the politics of language. Not sure where they're hiding, though.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 02:55 pm
pffffffffft to uppity Andrew

pffffffffffffffft, I say




a link to Forillon (trying to find something about the trail and its history)

http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/qc/forillon/index_e.asp
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 03:08 pm
Ehbth wrote :

Quote:
the whole concept of the term joual would be an interesting discussion


I assume you mean : La Parlure Québecoyse :wink:
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 03:12 pm
Joual is spoken in a region of Canada, not defined by political boundaries. As I learned it, and experienced it, it is the dialect developed in a band that runs from Northern New Brunswick through the Gaspe, north of Quebec and Montreal and into North Eastern Ontario - roughly following the lumber camps of the 1800's. It is not the same dialect spoken in the Prairies, or other parts of Quebec.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 03:18 pm
Some think this about joual, I'm not an expert :


Quote:
Réglons tout de suite le cas du "joual". Parler joual, c'est parler cheval, baragouiner d'une manière inintelligible, d'après une prononciation populaire de cheval qui, détrompons-nous, n'est pas particulière à la Nouvelle-France, mais plutôt héritée des parlers régionaux de France, notamment de l'Ouest et du Centre où le mot est bien attesté sous la forme jouau, tant au pluriel (des jouaux) qu'au singulier (un jouau).
0 Replies
 
Bram
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 03:28 pm
Francis

I was thinking, before I read all those posts, that "joual" must have come from France. Would it be a kind of ancient dialect in France and would it still be spoken there?

Certainly, Quebecers speak French with a "strange" accent, which may be a little tough on the ears, if you are familiar with Parisian French. But otherwise, there are many regional dialects or accents in France, also. I like the accent from Marseille, after reading so many Marcel Pagnol books!! Cool

Is there a definition in the dictionary, by the way, of "joual"?

And I mean ... uppity Ontarians? Why, what would you call people from further West? Razz
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 03:31 pm
That makes a certain amount of sense, as the people in the lumber camps were isolated from the development of French in Quebec in the urban areas. It would be much like the Elizabethan English that is still spoken on some islands in the Chesapeake Bay.

Or the peculiar dialect of German that I speak, that none of my cousins seem to have heard except on public television documentaries. The language moved on without me Shocked
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 04:05 pm
Bram,

I must say I'm delighted hearing a "strange" accent, which may be a little tough on the ears Laughing

Sure we have several accents in France regions.

"joual" is in the dictionnary :

Here a link to it :joual

"Uppity Ontarians" is certainly Canadians affairs!
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 04:12 pm
When I initially learned to speak French, we had teachers who'd been trained in Paris. Then I head off to Rimouski where I didn't understand a word for at least a week - quoi - pardonnez-moi - quoi - pardonnez-moi - quoi ?

The program I was in, we got dinged a full mark off the final grade each time we were caught using English - quoi? pardonnez-moi? je ne comprends PAS !!!!
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 04:50 pm
Anyway, you have learned!

Now you can say : je COMPRENDS!!!

Another link to : joual
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 07:25 pm
Not all Ontarians are uppity, of course. That crack was aimed squarely at Mz. ehhhBeth (as she well knows). Further west? There are people further west in Canada?
0 Replies
 
Bram
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 02:38 pm
----------
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 02:53 pm
Hi, Bram!

The king/queen said "nous" when imposing his will!

Usually he/she said "moi".

Louis XIV motto : "L'état c'est moi".
0 Replies
 
Bram
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 03:08 pm
Interesting, Francis!!

That seems familiar to me ... I wonder if it is because that expression has been used by many leaders after Louis XIV. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 03:20 pm
Must be that!
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 04:01 pm
You were in Toronto, Bram?
and you didn't let our local contingent of A2K'rs know?

tsk tsk

There are a number of A2K's further west in Canada. A handful strewn across the prairies and then a lovely selection in British Columbia. They're probably afraid to post in a Montreal thread Cool
0 Replies
 
Bram
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 06:34 pm
---------
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 06:40 pm
Just remember us the next time you head our direction, Bram. Shake on it?
0 Replies
 
Bram
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 06:56 pm
Sure will. Thanks for the invitation, ehBeth. Laughing

But please, no shaking, I was shaking enough in Toronto ... out of cold. Razz
0 Replies
 
 

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