You & your neighbours

Well, we decisded to stay home cause aneighbor is coming over to discuss all of us going up to the Farm ASHow on another day. Metza Metz.

Weve had a small "Amish shuffle" gone on since we wrote in this thread 5 yhears ago. The big farm next to me has been sold to 4 Amish Brothers and obne ENglish neighbor who wanted an additional 50 Acres to provide more pasture for his dray horse business (He raises Belgian draft horses and some Morgans for his hobby of team horse competition) This guy is wealthy and, as I said several years ago, Is so nice that I almost hate making snotty comments about rich people.

The four AMish brothers bought out the big farm that was gonna go up for dsevelopment and had us al;l scared for a brief time. The soil fertilty of this area of the planet should almost make development a captal crime.
The four Amish brothers are presently farming and are helpinbg each other build large homes for their burgeoning families. One of the brothers (the eldest I believe) is building a "grossdawdy" house onto his. (A grossdawdy house is a separate house that is b uilt as an attachment to an existing dwelling, the purpose of which is to house and provide easy access to the patriarchal members of the family, from the main part of the house)

Probably, this spring and summer, we will see the traditional "barn raisings " at each of these farms and , in which , there will be the raising of large dairy barns, tobacco barns, and otjher assorted outbuildings to complete a "compound" like collection of buildings that make up the typical AMish Farm.

Ive met all te brothers and, although the gradual association has been slow , (mostly due to these guys are always busy working on their temporary buildings)
I loaoned one of them a Passlode finishing nailer > He used it and liked it so much that he went out and bought a new one. He gave me the new one and asked to keep mine as his own(how bout dat?). I didnt expect that but , didnt say no because, like other cultures, a gift from an Amishman must be accepted with proper gratitude. To refuse is a slight.
One of the Amish brothers is going to operate a farrowing operation and the other will concentrate solely on crops for feed. The third will house the dairy herd and so will thye fourth. The milking herd will be specializing in the "Raw" milk market which has blown up as a mature market in this part of the state. People are slowly turning away from "techno dairies" and embracing organic and unpasteurized milk. Im somewaht ambivalent about the whole thing (My opinion is that "organic" is mostly a marketing ploy) However, We do love Raw Buttermilk. It has a real buttery taste and is redolent of the grassy knoll on which the cows feed. (Right now their entire herd is housed in the old barn of the original farm and is only about 200 cows big). Their plans are to grow to over 500 cows and to sell to restaurants .
NOW the culture clash that is looming requires that we review a little fundamental "Amishology"

The Amish are a separatist Anabaptists sect whose entire culture has , in some measures, stopped at 1867 (one of the big :Disciplines ordained by past Bishops). WhileAMish can adopt technology for their farms, these technologies must pass muster with the Bishops who act as cultural gatekeepers of any proposed new AMISH tech (for example, they use cell phones and laptops, as long as the recharging is accomplished by portable gas run generators or by solar panels)

So the big dairy, which is proposed to be a RAW MILK operation, will require an investment in all kinds of high tech stuff that some of which will require tying to a grid (unless of course they use big time PV solar or wind power with gas genny backup beacuie its uses lots of amps)

Itll be interesting tosee what happens. I stop over at one or the other brothers places and talk with them and their families. ( I notice a larger vocal role being taken by the wives) The wives are the main bookkeepers in the farm and family ops. The husbands seem to submit to the "paymaster attitudes" that this recently developed role change is causing. The wives do most of the buying, not only food but they are there with the husbands when they make big farm purchases and the wives write the chex.

I see a changing role thingy going on and Im keeping mental notes that its ok to begin talking with the women when I want to buy soimething from these families.

They are still rather like an anthill than a collection of individuals. But thats slowly changing in my small corner. Interesting.

AS far as neighbors, to use a word that is usually foreign to me, IM BLESSED with good ones.

Yes, it takes time. I find the stories of established neighbourhoods like yours, chai, very interesting, because they are so different to my own transitory inner-city neighbourhoods for the past 20 or so years. People are coming & going all the time. It's what you get used to.



Congratulating you on your good management & sharing your pleasure at the "good luck" side of your story, chai. It would be hideous to be stuck in a location you loathe & which feels unsafe. You done good!

You did, edgar. I read your posts & wondered how you could stand it!

So what's the latest in your interactions with this group of charming folk? I'm sure there's a new story every day!

Yohoo! Osso!

Thanks so much for responding to my not-so-subtle request for more stories from your neck of the woods, farmer. I didn't give you much choice in the matter, did I?

But I really do find your stories (about life with the Amish & other things) from your community fascinating , as obviously others here do, too. It's something most of us wouldn't know much, if anything at all, about.

I was wondering, as I read your post, if your family's relationship with your Amish neighbours was typical for your community. It sounds like the Amish community is pretty self contained & perhaps prefer things that way. But maybe, from a long distance away, I've got that wrong. But I wondered if it might have become more so, in the aftermath of of those terrible events of just a few years ago?

But I do understand about not dwelling on the painful past & the need for life to go on, too. So if you'd prefer, it's perfectly OK not to talk about this at all. You might prefer to talk about other aspects of your community. Which would be very welcome, I'm certain.

I don't need to say again, do I, that your stories from your neck of the woods are most welcome here? Big stuff, little stuff... doesn't matter.
I find the stories of how people coexist, the good things & the tensions, really interesting. Probably because I'm a sticky nose.

Aftermath of which terrible things were you referring to olga? Theres been a few including seeing one of my neighbors barns go up in flames after a bad lightning storm.

My family and I get along with all the AMISH neighbors and weve got any number of commensal relationships built upon skills and needs. My AMish neighbors often clean our barns and do it for the manure for their fields. Im always available to help push or p[ull or lift some heavy piece of AMish stuff that can only be lifted with a front end loader.
They are the only folks I allow to deer hunt on my land. The women often get together and talk about recipes "My wife has recently taken an interest in "Canning veggies" since Ive expanded my gardens.

Its a good and peaceful neighborhood that encompasses several square miles.

What do thay use to hunt the deer ?

guns Dave. Why? do you think they only use spears? (although here in Pa, there was proposed legislation to have an atlatl deer hunting season. The Game Commission thought about it and reccomended against it .Atlatl chucking is a rendesvous sport in the Appalachians. Theres a guy named Gary Fogelman who can hit the spade on an ACE dead center at about 30 yards.

My brother in law hunts almost all his own meat, and he doesn't use a gun.

He uses a bow.

I may not have mentioned that there were about ten police cars surrounding their place a few weeks back. They finally left with two small children in a squad car. During the action, no adult opened the door to them. I have no idea what it was over.
About five days ago, I heard extreme shouting from inside their home. One of them was accusing a woman of being with the wrong man that night. He was slamming things so hard I considered calling the police. But, she came out the door at the height of it, then went back in. She appeared physically okay, so I stayed out of it.
The weather mostly keeps them indoors, lately.

(Perhaps I've gotten my wires crossed here, farmer. If I have, it won't be the first time, OK? ) But I was referring to the Amish school hostage shootings of 2006. I understood (maybe wrongly) that this was in your county. I was wondering if there have been ongoing repercussions within your community. I've read much about the Amish responding with forgiveness and reconciliation (which I find quite remarkable in the circumstances).

Dunno how you cope with this sort of thing constantly, edgar. Honestly I don't. If I was in your shoes (& it looked like they were there for the long haul) I think I'd feel so intimidated that I'd have to seriously consider moving away. Thank heavens for the cold weather that's keeping them indoors, that's all I can say!

My neighbors are great. Most of us have lived here over 20 years and we all get along. We don't socialize together, but we keep each other informed of who is going out of town and we watch out for each other.

One of the houses on our street went up for sale a few years back and I was shocked to learn that the person buying that house only lived 1 block away. This person was selling their house to move onto our street because they asked around and were told how we all get along and watch out for each other. I feel very lucky to have such great neighbors

Sounds like a great situation for you, TTH. What better endorsement of neighborhood harmony than someone choosing to move in, because of that reputation?

Its amazing how the AMish community has come together with the English neighbors to show us all how true forgiveness is accomplished when its part of the communities heritage. Ive been seeing this as a real teaching "moment" for we who give the finger to everyone who cuts us off in traffic, or bumpas ahead in a post office line.
Whats important is how those of us left after the shooting have actually learned the lesson of forgiveness and no retribution.

The AMish did tear down the school where the tragedy occured and then rebuilt the new school within an area that about a half mile away from the torn down schoolhouse and there there is a small meadow near a pond. I see the kids outside playing in the snow and ice skating on the pond at recess as I go by several times a week and have , instead of reliving the incident, been almost renewed at their living lesson of forgiveness

PS(I dont think that Om SIG DAve would feel really comfortable with all these peaceful folks around here.)

I said it before, farmer, & I'll say it again. I find this (Amish) response to the killing of innocent children just absolutely remarkable. I can't think of another similar example of such enlightenment. I am totally awed by it. The are many communities which would have been torn apart for generations in similar circumstances. You are very fortunate.



What an incredibly valuable lesson to have learned, but what a painful, hideous way to have learned it. You must feel very humbled.

It's very interesting to me how many of you seem to live in settled, supportive neigbourhood situations. Maybe as a result of living in small towns, or rural communities?

I was thinking, how by contrast my own experience, in a big city, is so different. Things change so fast. The street landscape changes really fast. People come & go all the time. You get used to things being like this. In my last neighbourhood, where I lived for oh, 18 years (? or close enough to) we moved into what was a predominantly established Italian-Australian migrant community. Housing was cheap, lots of student share houses ... all in all pretty rundown & neglected, really. Within space of a few years, all that started to change. "Trendification" took hold. The old Abruzzian grandparents started moving out & the new breed of professionals started moving in. The street scene changed dramatically. We all renovated like crazy. Old "period" houses suddenly took on new sparkle & prices sky-rocketed. All the old student houses disappeared, too, sadly.

Our main neighbourhood connections during the last few years I lived there, where through a very active street resident's group. We certainly gave the local a council a run for it's money! But interestingly now, of the 10 most active households in that street, only one of the "originals" remain. All of those connections now lost. All of us moving on to other locations (maybe to move again, before long) & establishing new connections, yet again.

OK, so I moved 5 minutes up the road, about 8 years ago. To a very diverse multicultural suburb, having yet not undergone the trendification of my previous suburb. A much more urban setting (by choice) right smack in the middle of things, though I’m living in a very quiet little street. Remarkable that such a situation can exist, really. What luck.

Then a few years down the track, the council announces a hugely inappropriate development at the very end of the street. One night I get a knock on my door. A fellow from the next little street across fills me in on all the details. Our little residential streets are going to be clogged with huge amounts of industrial traffic! Within weeks, the start of a small resistance to inappropriate development group is formed! We meet at each other’s homes, at the closest pub.

Suddenly we know folk who’ve been quietly living in the same area the whole time, but our paths have never crossed before. We continue meeting, we agree, we bicker, we agree to each do what needs to be done, we get to know each other well ... we have a campaign to run. We are a community here for the first time (for most of us). We are in the letters & articles pages of the local paper. We are writing submissions to argue our case, we address the council’s planning committee with our concerns ... you get the picture.

Now my suburb has been designated an “area of strategic development” (one of many) to accommodate Melbourne’s incredibly rapid population growth. The fight, from many different quarters with different concerns, is to keep our suburb “liveable” & to keep it affordable & a good place for ordinary people. (Developers, trendification & soaring housing prices go hand in hand. Here we go again!)

My chosen “cause” has been the maintenance of 10 hectares of native grasslands & other native vegetation from development. (How lucky are we that this even exists, in the inner city of a huge sprawling city in 2010!)
So I joined another (existing) group, set up for the purpose. We meet at each others' homes. Compare the latest notes, develop strategies. We’re a good team. Sharing a variety of tasks, like submission writing, publicity, membership of a state government committee, pressuring the local council, being vocal at meetings, basically keeping the issue alive & running. We have quite a way to go!

I guess, in big cities, people form their alliances & friendships in all sorts of different ways. From being members of sports or civic groups, historical societies, just talking to the neighbours over the fence, being members of churches, & so on ... I didn’t realize till I started writing here, that this is my chosen way. Finding like-minded people within the community & working together.

Im also interested in the AMISH. I read every word of FM's posts on the subject. facinating that they espouse modern ways yet are happy to use a nail gun which is run by compreassed air. I envisaged dad nailing and 20 feet away the kids (and mum) taking turns on a bike to power the compressor.
and that they can allow FM to use his tractor to lift or shove things. I was sure they would think things through and just not have something that needed such assistance from outside.

I live on the edge of an ex housing commision area in a house i own. For the most part we dont really associate with our neighbours, but thats just us. The place across the road was a hell hole for many many years. Very similar to what edgar describes. Same drunken and non drunken fights, police attending, drug deals, probaly a little home based prostitution however the house was maintained reasonably well as its a "commision" home.
The son who was the main problem finally moved away, THANK YOU GOD! and Mum has mellowed with age. Its pretty obvious whenever the son is home as the yelling starts but nowhere near as bad as before and doesnt happen very often.
There is more of a problem further up the street i am told but we dont hear it.
Houses on both sides of me are both rented. we did have a problem on one side with some youger 16/17 year old who just couldnt understand why his loud music was a problem. I "suggested" he turn it down a number of times which he always did but it somehow managed to creep up again over a few hours till it rattled my windows.
Written complaints to the managing agent with documented times and dates soon resolved the issue. They finished their lease and were not offered an extension.