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Sat 1 Jan, 2005 09:58 pm
I'm not interested in rehashing neocon sound bytes. We've all heard enough propaganda. For what reason, political, psychological, or other, do you believe Bush was driven to invade Iraq?
An attempt to set up a friendly, secular state in the Middle East. There could be numerous benefits - oil, military bases, terrorist flypaper, building contracts, etc.
quite a number of reasons occur to me. (1) to demonstrate a show of force/power to the middle-east (2) to establish a military base of operations/influence in the middle-east (3) to maximize influence/control of vital oil supplies (4) to demonstrate that the US is capable of winning a war (the US has not won a war since WWII (Grenada/Panama can't really count) (5) to focus attention on an enemy (white hats against black hats=patriotism) (6) He thought it could be done on the cheap and easy giving him a legacy as a war winner against terrorism. etc. etc. etc.
Nobody has yet mentioned the possibility that he may have been urged to finish a job that his father botched so badly in the first Gulf War. That's when Saddam should have been taken out of circulation, not 10 years later.
To me, the finish Daddy's war argument has some slight merit, but I believe control of the mid-east and its oil is paramount. Keeping Europe, Russia and China from making a move on it.
In this thread, at least, no one had yet mentioned that taking down Saddam, and setting up bases in southwest Asia was on the PNAC agenda before the Shrub even ran for the Presidency. Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rummy are all founding members of the PNAC.
That is why it just makes me ill to hear all the patriotic crap the administration puts out. They have shamelessly exploited the deaths of thousands on September 11th to further their agenda--they are scum, from top to bottom, scum of the worst description.
Setanta wrote:
That is why it just makes me ill to hear all the patriotic crap the administration puts out. They have shamelessly exploited the deaths of thousands on September 11th to further their agenda--they are scum, from top to bottom, scum of the worst description.
You ain't gonna get no argument from me on that score, Boss.
I would add something to this thread, but I'm afraid Setanta might call me disingenuous.
Setanta wrote:In this thread, at least, no one had yet mentioned that taking down Saddam...
It's only been 1/2 an hour...
Plus, no one has said anything that can be termed "hysterical" yet.
Except Gus, of course.
There you go, gus, getting all hysterical on us. tsk tsk.
Setanta just summed it up for me. That, along with dyslexia's reasons - #1 show of force also being a part of the PNAC plan (multiple simultaneous wars) pretty much covers it.
I think he believed it was for noble reasons: to further the war on terror, to show our national resolve, to establish democracy, etc. He was able to sell this dubious package to the heartland because his beliefs were sincerely held, while regard for international law, cultural differences, and the lessons of history could be either ignored or discounted in the face of these convictions.
It may yet work out for him, as it is possible, but by no means certain, that the Iraqis will emerge from this debacle at least marginally better off than they were under Saddam, perhaps enough for the neocons to continue to successfully gloss over the damage that has been willfully inflicted on our freedoms, our security, and America's standing as part of the civilized world.
As Abraham Lincoln said, you can fool some of the people all of the time.
I agree with seneta about the PNAC and the 9/11 just making it easier to sell to the American people.
I think if he had been honest a lot of people might of gone along with the whole PNAC beliefs and ideas even without 9/11. But he wasn't and he did lie and use that event over and over again.
I wouldn't have, but I probably would have been in an minority. Not really anything new.
Uh, because they are murderous terrorist assholes? And continue to be? Obviously A2K has little military presence or my response wouldn't stand out.
uh...because he's a f*#king ass hole? Not to put to fine a point to it? All the smart stuff has already been said....
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:uh...because he's a f*#king ass hole? Not to put to fine a point to it? All the smart stuff has already been said....
i'll take an even lower road :wink: SPS(Small Penis Syndrome)
gustavratzenhofer wrote:I would add something to this thread, but I'm afraid Setanta might call me disingenuous.
Go ahead, Gus, please do .....
dyslexia wrote:quite a number of reasons occur to me. (1) to demonstrate a show of force/power to the middle-east (2) to establish a military base of operations/influence in the middle-east (3) to maximize influence/control of vital oil supplies (4) to demonstrate that the US is capable of winning a war (the US has not won a war since WWII (Grenada/Panama can't really count) (5) to focus attention on an enemy (white hats against black hats=patriotism) (6) He thought it could be done on the cheap and easy giving him a legacy as a war winner against terrorism. etc. etc. etc.
Yes. And to show US citizens that the US was not going to be pushed around after September 11 .... even though the Iraqis had nothing to do with September 11!
The invasion of Iraq was, and is, a fear reaction. Blindsided by 9/11, this administration sought to strike out at any perceived threat and, like any drunk in a darkened bar room, started swinging. Ignoring their own early 2001 pronouncements that Saddam had been marginalized, they suddenly found him to be a fully armed and dangerous threat. Ignoring the protests of their friends that Iraq was not part of the problem, think -- Sammy, it was Al Queda not Saddam, they shrugged, picked up a pool cue and pounded Iraq's head with it.
The more I think about it the more the bar fight-fear strike fits. Guy gets wacked in the head but doesn't know by who, starts swinging, friends try to stop him but he's pissed now and scared it's going to happen again so he just keeps going. Meanwhile the guy who did smack him is sipping a beer at the bar. Pissed off scared guy's friends get pissed at him for being such a dork and there's a big mess, but nobody's happy...
Joe( I think this happened at the TomCat Bar) Nation
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