2
   

Bush plan to cripple SS

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 10:55 am
Agreed Au.

It doesn't look like SS is going to happen this year, at least.

Another (partial) victory!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 11:05 am
Cycloptichorn
Victory only from Bush's idiocy. The problem of SS's solvency remains and needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately I have no confidence in this congress's ability to solve the problem. They are too busy dealing with the use of steroids in baseball to bother with such trivia as SS.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 11:08 am
Quote:
Cycloptichorn
Victory only from Bush's idiocy. The problem of SS's solvency remains and needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately I have no confidence in this congress's ability to solve the problem. They are too busy dealing with the use of steroids in baseball to bother with such trivia as SS.


Yeah, it needs to be dealt with, but it isn't like we don't have time. The system isn't going to collapse the way they say it is. I'd rather see some focus on saving Medicaid.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 11:17 am
Cycloptichorn
They have already dealt with Medicare. Remember the prescription drug benefit. The problem of course the legislation only managed to feed the problem.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 11:18 am
That's what I'm saying; we need to start paying attention to the extra money they are proposing cutting from medicaid as well as other issues. The REpubs are solidly hosed on the Social Security issue this year.

We may be able to turn this into a huge victory in 2006 if they hold on to the rail too tight and we can get the requisite facts out there.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 11:25 am
Cycloptichorn
You place too much confidence in the American public. Bush regardless of all the failures and lies was elected based upon "Moral Values". What a joke that was..
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 11:28 am
Yeah, right. I forgot about that Sad

It's hard not to be encouraged when reading things like this though:

Quote:
Unlike recent battles over tax cuts, the threat of Bush campaigning for their defeat does not appear to be scaring Democratic senators, White House officials concede. Some aides are surprised at the unified and stubborn opposition of Democrats and, in a tone that sounds more pessimistic than a few weeks ago, talk of how a defeat of the Bush plan this year could lead to GOP congressional and gubernatorial losses in 2006.


I mean, 4 months ago, you would have sworn that there's no way the Dems could have stopped this plan from happening. It's about time they got unified on an issue instead of beating each other up all day.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 03:29 pm
Cycloptichorn\
From what I have been able to understand from reading between the lines. Many of the republican senators are not particularly happy with Bush's nightmare proposal. They are glad therefore for the democratic stance which affords them the cover of not having to buck a vindictive president.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 06:12 pm
I found this report on the Alabama rally I referenced earlier:

Quote:
There was a remarkable exchange during President Bush's meticulously choreographed townhall meeting in Alabama yesterday. One of the people selected to speak with Bush was a woman named Sarah Garrison Webster. It's clear that she was chosen because she is a federal employee who is eligible for the federal Thrift Savings Plan, a program that gives federal employees the option of putting some of their retirement money into stocks. Ms. Webster was supposed to be Exhibit A on how much people love to invest their retirement money in stock funds. It didn't go exactly according to plan:

Quote:
THE PRESIDENT: Let me ask you something about the Thrift Savings Plan. This is a Thrift Savings Plan that has a mix of stocks and bonds?

MS. WEBSTER: Yes, sir.

THE PRESIDENT: Now, how hard was that to learn how to do that?

MS. WEBSTER: And I chose the safe plan, government bonds. (Laughter.)

Yeah, that's pretty funny. Bush's own hand-picked starry-eyed acolytes won't risk their retirement in the stock market. But naturally the most bizarre words came out of the other guy's mouth:

Quote:
THE PRESIDENT: That's all right. Well, not so safe, unless we fix the deficit. But other than that -- (laughter). We're fixing the deficit. (Applause.)


Except that he's doing exactly nothing to fix the deficit.

So did the President of the United States say that government bonds aren't safe anymore because of the irresponsible deficits his government has run?

Sure sounds like it...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 06:17 pm
Bush is trying his best to "break the bank" so that our government reduces social services, and the democs won't have any money to spend when they control DC. Bush promised to reduce the national deficit in 2001. He lied. Only conservatives believe him today.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 07:33 am
http://www.bartcop.com/soc-sec1.gif
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 08:14 am
Is it possible that George Bush is an agent of a foreign power sent to bankrupt the US and destroy our economy? Inorder to take it over for his evil empire :wink: :wink:
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 08:25 am
Former CEOs Barnstorm for Bush's Social Security Plan
http://www.ironictimes.com/images06/threeexecs.jpg
As part of their plea agreement, Ken Lay (left),
Bernie Ebbers (center), and Dennis Kozlowski (right)
promote investing in stock market rather than current system

"Hey, it worked for us...for awhile..."
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 10:41 am
Pdiddie,

Great lotto ticket above! But your salacious pics of Gannon got my long-running thread locked. Boo! :frown:

Will you delete and ask them to unlock it so I don't have to start a new one?

ps CEO thing funny as hell too.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 10:44 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
But your salacious pics of Gannon got my long-running thread locked.


McG's avatar is ok, and that pic was a problem? I guess we've learned a bit more about the moderators today, and it's not in their favour.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 10:47 am
I actually came by to drop off the latest from factcheck.org on this one.
Neither side's been looking too good.

Quote:
Pro-Bush Group Overstates Social Security Shortfall

Summary

In a new TV ad, Progress for America exaggerates the true state of Social Security's finances by comparing it to the Titanic. The ad claims the system will go "bankrupt" if nothing is done and that we must rescue the program "before it hits the iceberg." Actually, neutral experts predict the system can pay between 70 and 80 percent of currently scheduled benefits even if the Trust Fund is exhausted, which isn't predicted to happen for another 37 years, at least.

The ad also touts Bush's plan for "voluntary personal retirement accounts" as though that would improve the system's finances. But even the White House now acknowledges that individual accounts alone do nothing to fix the system's long-term financial shortfall.


Click the link below for the full article:

http://www.factcheck.org/article313m.html

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 05:31 pm
Bush is already bankrupting this country, and he wants to add 1 to 2 trillion dollars to that deficit. Nothing like a "conservative" to manage our naitonal fiscal health.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 05:36 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Pdiddie,

Great lotto ticket above! But your salacious pics of Gannon got my long-running thread locked. Boo! :frown:

Will you delete and ask them to unlock it so I don't have to start a new one?

ps CEO thing funny as hell too.

Cycloptichorn


Looks like it's edited and unlocked, cyc.

More good stuff:

http://www.bartcop.com/lead-elephant.jpg
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2005 06:24 am
OLD WAY VS. INVESTING


Site seems to counter Bush

DAVID E. ROSENBAUM

New York Times


WASHINGTON - As President Bush and his allies travel the country to promote his Social Security plan, they say individual investment accounts are a no-brainer, bound to result in more money at retirement than workers could expect from Social Security.

But someone at the Social Security Administration did not get the word.

In a Q-and-A on the agency's Web site meant to explain the retirement program, there is this exchange, which has apparently been there for years:

Q. I think I could do better if you let me invest the Social Security I pay into an individual retirement plan (IRA) or some other investment plan. What do you think?

"Maybe you could, but then again, maybe your investments wouldn't work out. Remember these facts:

• Your Social Security taxes pay for potential disability and survivors benefits, as well as for retirement benefits.

• Social Security incorporates social goals -- such as giving more protection to families and to low-income workers -- that are not part of private pension plans; and

• Social Security benefits are adjusted yearly for increases in the cost of living -- a feature not present in many private plans."

In the middle of the Social Security Administration's home page, toward the top, are "Questions about." From the drop-down menu, viewers can choose "Taxes and Social Security" and go to Question 18.

After he was shown the passage Thursday, a White House spokesman, Trent Duffy, said, "The president is not talking about this approach. The president's approach is a voluntary account financed by a portion of a person's payroll taxes, and that account would have appropriate safeguards to guard against risks in the market."

Does he expect the Web site to be changed? "That's up to the Social Security Administration," Duffy said.

In the agency's press office, Mark Hinkle, a civil servant, said, "By and large, we have an informational Web site, not a political Web site."


-
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2005 03:49 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8000-2005Mar28.html

Conservatives Splitting on Social Security
Some Opinion Leaders Unconvinced on Bush Proposal for Personal Accounts
By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 2005; Page E03


President Bush's proposal to add private investment accounts to Social Security is beginning to create controversy within the one group that has most forcefully embraced the idea in theory: the conservative intelligentsia.

Under Bush's approach, personal accounts "are complicated," wrote Alex J. Pollock, a finance expert at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, in a paper he will present at AEI today. "To many people, they are downright confusing and even frightening, and they require diverting a portion of payroll taxes away from the U.S. Treasury."

Conservative Harvard University economist Robert J. Barro broke with the White House in the April 4 issue of Business Week, writing, "Overall the accounts are a bad idea." Tyler Cowen, a free-market economist at George Mason University, has linked his Web log, Marginal Revolution, to Barro's dissent, declaring, "Robert Barro agrees with me on Social Security."

To be sure, the White House can tap a deep well of support among conservative academics. Harvard economist Martin Feldstein has spoken glowingly of private accounts, as have Nobel laureate Gary S. Becker and Richard A. Posner, both of the University of Chicago.

But Cowen and others say the cracks in public support for the president's approach are only the surface manifestations of wider misgivings on the right.

"For different reasons, I think support is waning," said Barro, who for years had embraced private accounts.

For several months, the White House has had to contend with some private-accounts supporters who argue that Bush's plan is far too timid. Now, the administration must confront a new group arguing the proposal represents an unwise expansion of Social Security's promises.

"I think there was a kind of notional support among right-wing or free-market intellectuals," said Cowen, "but now they're getting nervous. Even if they're not speaking out, they just figure it will die on the vine."

Under the Bush proposal, workers could divert up to 4 percent of wages subject to Social Security tax into a private account, which could be invested in stocks and bonds. Because the money going into the accounts would otherwise go to current beneficiaries, the government would have to borrow trillions of dollars to ensure current Social Security benefits would not be cut.

Workers who opted for accounts would see their base Social Security benefits reduced by a dollar for every dollar put into their accounts, plus a 3 percent "offset" on the account contributions.

In his column, Barro argued that politicians will never allow private accounts to replace the Social Security system. So the accounts system -- as outlined by Bush -- would end up being what Barro views as an unwise supplement to existing benefits. Instead, he argued, the program should be stripped down to a minimum payout to keep the elderly out of poverty while putting Social Security on solid financial footing.

"There is no good reason to go beyond the minimum standard; that is why I view personal accounts as a mistake -- they enlarge a Social Security program that already promises too much," Barro wrote.

Pollock takes a different tack. As personal accounts are envisioned, most people will see them as too risky and complicated. And the government's upfront borrowing costs are simply too high, he said.

The federal government enjoys a substantial surplus of Social Security taxes, and that surplus is used to finance other government programs. For every dollar "borrowed" from Social Security, the Social Security system receives the equivalent in the form of a Treasury bond.

Rather than have those bonds go to the Social Security Administration, Pollock suggests they go into private accounts, in the form of inflation-indexed Treasury bonds, or TIPS. After some number of years, the bonds could be traded for other investments, like private-sector bonds or stocks.

Under the plan, there would be no huge, upfront borrowing costs for the government. Social Security taxes would remain dedicated to Social Security, answering the Democrats' loudest objection. And individuals nervous about private financial markets would be offered accounts with perhaps the safest investment vehicle on offer.

"The fundamental idea of long-term savings accounts, which really do generate assets for ordinary people, that's a great idea," Pollock said. "The question is, can you design a system that works?"

Kevin A. Hassett, director of economic studies at AIG, said the splintering of ideas among conservatives is only natural. For all of its talk, the White House has yet to formally propose a comprehensive overhaul of Social Security, and in its absence, intellectuals have jumped into the fray.

But with so many ideas in play, the White House has to step in soon with a plan around which conservatives can coalesce, Hassett said.

"If the White House doesn't have a plan soon," Hassett said, "it's very unlikely the White House will win."
0 Replies
 
 

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