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con-artist master manipulator

 
 
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 03:28 am
I wonder whether "manipulator" can be or should be removed from "con-artist master manipulator"? "Trump is a con-artist master" is clear enough.

Context:
 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMn-Ry0VoAEmDXK.jpg

Thanks in anticipation
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Type: Question • Score: 1 • Views: 657 • Replies: 9

 
View best answer, chosen by oristarA
roger
 
  3  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 03:31 am
@oristarA,
No. You could read that as con artist AND master manipulator. You wouldn't say "con artist master".
oristarA
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 04:11 am
@roger,
Well, what does "con-artist master manipulator" exactly mean?

Fraud-in-Chief?
centrox
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 04:35 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
Well, what does "con-artist master manipulator" exactly mean?

It means he is (1) a con-artist (confidence trickster) and (2) a master manipulator. These are words and phrases readily found in a good dictionary.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 07:29 pm
@centrox,
roger wrote:

No. You could read that as con artist AND master manipulator. You wouldn't say "con artist master".

centrox wrote:

oristarA wrote:
Well, what does "con-artist master manipulator" exactly mean?

It means he is (1) a con-artist (confidence trickster) and (2) a master manipulator. These are words and phrases readily found in a good dictionary.



But the grammatical structure of "con-artist master manipulator" is or appears to be "master manipulator of con artist."

Is a comma needed: "con-artist, master manipulator"?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 07:36 pm
@oristarA,

oristarA wrote:



But the grammatical structure of "con-artist master manipulator" is or appears to be "master manipulator of con artist."

Is a comma needed: "con-artist, master manipulator"?


You are suggesting he is a master manipulator of con artists? Unlikely, but go ahead if that's what you want.

I used the conjunction 'and' in place of the comma. It was not accidental.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 09:47 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

You are suggesting he is a master manipulator of con artists? Unlikely, but go ahead if that's what you want.


Not at all. The structure is confusing and you and Centrox have corrected it in your mind. Yet to all appearances, what it conveys is contrary to the author's intention.

Yes, using "and" there could resolve the problem.
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centrox
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Oct, 2017 01:03 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
But the grammatical structure of "con-artist master manipulator" is or appears to be "master manipulator of con artist."

The structure may seem that way, especially to a non-native speaker. A native speaker might notice an ambiguity but would very likely resolve it in favour of the more natural interpretation (that con artist and master manipulator are separate), especially in view of the context and his/her general knowledge. Compare Raffles the Gentleman Thief and Jack the Giant Killer. The writer is probably not a professional - people who superimpose messages on photographs for the Web seldom are.
centrox
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Oct, 2017 05:23 am
Here's another one - a "lady killer" is neither a person who kills ladies nor a lady who kills. It is a man who is known to have great success seducing women.

I think the original text would be better if the word "and" had been between "con artist" and "master manipulator".
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oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Oct, 2017 07:31 pm
@centrox,
centrox wrote:

oristarA wrote:
But the grammatical structure of "con-artist master manipulator" is or appears to be "master manipulator of con artist."

The structure may seem that way, especially to a non-native speaker. A native speaker might notice an ambiguity but would very likely resolve it in favour of the more natural interpretation (that con artist and master manipulator are separate), especially in view of the context and his/her general knowledge. Compare Raffles the Gentleman Thief and Jack the Giant Killer. The writer is probably not a professional - people who superimpose messages on photographs for the Web seldom are.




Is it possible that the writer actually meant "con-artist the master manipulator"?
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