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Is Islam peaceful?

 
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 8 Jul, 2019 03:31 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
where does it say that the verses I quoted are abrogated?

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Qur%27an
It does not have to. It names them and you quoted some. You can do better than that. Try the truth about Islam.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Jul, 2019 03:39 pm
@coldjoint,
Once again you used the same website which will never promote Islam. If you think these extreme Christians are playing fair games, you are mistaken. They are taking verses from Quran and commentary from Muslim scholar to twist the facts and present them is a way which promotes their agenda.

Quote:
Quote:
Imam al-Qurtubi says:

"It is essential to understand the question of abrogation, and great benefits flow from such an understanding, which no scholar can dispense with, and no one can deny abrogation except the ignorant and the dull-headed."

Is that guy calling you names? They look like Islamic sources to me. Now you can tell me why they are not.


One of your quote (I quoted above) from Imam Al Qurtabi points out to benefits of abrogation. Let me explain with a simple example abrogation and how it actually proves that Islam is the only true religion.

Alcohol was prohibited in four different stages in Quran:
It was originally permissible.
Then it was discouraged by verse 2:219.
Then it was prohibited to drink before prayer by verse 4:43.
Then it was prohibited in general by verse 5:90.

There are important lessons to be learned from this experience of gradual prohibition. At the beginning stages of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH's mission, people were simply not ready to give up alcohol for the sake of a greater purpose. Aisha (ra) said, “If the first thing to be revealed was ‘Do not drink wine,’ they would have said, ‘We will never stop drinking wine.’ And if it were revealed ‘Do not commit adultery,’ they would have said, ‘We will never stop committing adultery.’” Certainly, alcohol can have such a tight grip over people’s lives that only strengthening their faith can break it. Even today, the successful Alcoholics Anonymous 12-step program makes explicit references to God as the reason and means to quit. Likewise, people at the time of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH needed to build up their faith and recognize a meaningful purpose to their lives that would make the difficult struggle of quitting alcohol worth it. The same model of gradual, progressive implementation on a societal level can apply to other Islamic teachings as well.

None of the verse is abrogated. All these verses are still in Quran and these are there for our guidance. For example in case of Alcohol, general rule is that it is not allowed to drink alcohol. However, if a non-Muslim accepts Islam and is addicted to alcohol, then we apply the same rule of gradual prohibition. Same goes with reading five prayers which are obligatory on Muslims but for a new Muslim it is allowed to slowly start praying ( pray one prayer a day and slowly build up). It is most natural way. You don't go to gym and start lifting 200 lbs, it takes time to build up yourself and if one remains consistent then one day he/she can lift heavy weights. On the other hand if one starts lifting heavy weights from day one, most likely they will never come to gym after 2/3 days.

I really hope that you read this with an open mind. This is why it is important to seek knowledge from those who know ( Muslim scholars not the Christian so called scholars).
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jul, 2019 03:41 pm
@coldjoint,
see my reply here:
https://able2know.org/topic/420884-5#post-6869583
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 8 Jul, 2019 06:30 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
Once again you used the same website which will never promote Islam.

The last thing I want to promote is Islam. Look what it says and what it has done and is doing. Generations hating anyone and anything non-Islamic producing fanatics. Why would anyone want to promote hate? I understand you are obligated to do so but I will not listen to lies and I hope others wont either.

Quote:
They are taking verses from Quran and commentary from Muslim scholar to twist the facts and present

No they are not. They are giving you the literal translation and the literal interpretation the Koran itself commands. Alcohol prohibition has **** to do with it.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 08:20 am
@coldjoint,
I didn’t realize you were an expert on Muslims and Islam. Wow, such an eye opener. Muslims should invite you to explain Islam to them using far right Christian resources. Continue while I press ignore button on you.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 11:03 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
I didn’t realize you were an expert on Muslims and Islam.

I have said very little about Muslims, and you know it. I have told you what Islam says and how that makes it a curse on mankind. Jihad has killed close to 300 million people through Islams history and the killing goes on today.

The Koran obligates and commands eternal war with the non-Muslim. That is fact and you have posted nothing that contradicts that fact at all.

Quote:
Continue while I press ignore button on you.

Ignoring me proves I am right and I thank you for admitting it. Now if you continue to lie about Islam I will be right here to tell the truth. Your call, keep lying and I will keep proving you are lying.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 11:35 am
@coldjoint,
Your comment is just laughable. Everyone here knows about your hatred against Muslims and about your own ignorance. I don't need to prove anything to someone who is ignorant.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 11:49 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
Everyone here knows about your hatred against Muslims and about your own ignorance.

Pretty new here to know what everyone thinks. Also my posts have no hate in them they talk about the hate Islam teaches. You have yet to post a verse that says Muhammad condemned violent jihad or terror because there is no such verse.

The ignorance and arrogance are yours. You have proven nothing but you are lying. Nothing you can say can change that.

Quote:
2:191-194 Religion is for Allah..."
2:216-218 "Fighting is Ordained for You Though You Dislike It..."
2:244 "Fight in the Way of Allah..."
3:28, 5:51 "Take Not the Jews and Christians as Friends..."
3:56 "Disbelievers Will Be Punished in This World..."
3:151 "We Shall Cast Terror into the Hearts of Those Who Disbelieve..."
4:74 "Sell the Life of This World for the Hereafter..."
4:89 "If They Turn Away, Seize Them and Kill Them..."
4:95 "Not Equal are the Believers Who Sit at Home and Those Who Fight for Allah..."
4:104 "And Do Not Be Weak in Pursuit of the Enemy..."
5:33 "Those Who Do Mischief in the Land Shall be Killed or Crucified..."
8:12 "I will Cast Terror into the Hearts of Those who Disbelieve... Strike off Their Heads..."
8:39 "Fight Them Until There is No More Fitna and Religion Be Only for Allah..."
8:59-60 "Make Ready Against [the Disbelievers] All Steeds of War..."
9:5 "Slay the Idolaters Wherever You Find Them..."
9:29 "Fight Those Who Believe Not in Allah..."
9:30 "They Say 'Son of God', May Allah Destroy Them..."
9:38-42 "If You March Not Forth, He Will Punish You With a Painful Torment..."
9:73 (9:88, 9:11) "Strive Hard Against the Unbelievers and Hypocrites and Be Unyielding..."
9:123 "Fight Those of the Unbelievers Who are Near to You..."
18:65-81 "They Proceeded, Till They Met a Boy, Whom He Killed..."
47:4 "When You Meet Those Who Disbelieve, Smite Them at Their Necks..."
47:35 "Be Not Faint-Hearted, Crying for Peace When You Should Be Uppermost..."
61:4 "Surely Allah Loves Those Who Fight in His Way..."
61:9 "He Sent Muhammad to Make Islam Superior over All Other Religion..."
66:9 "Strive Hard Against the Disbelievers and Be Severe Against Them..."

Show us verse that change the meaning of those verses.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 12:10 pm
Quote:
Taqiyya (Lying)

Here is a detailed argument explaining what Habib is doing.
https://thereligionofpeace.com/pages/games/discover-truth/topics/taqiyya.aspx
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 12:10 pm
@coldjoint,
Any thing I would say, for you that will be abrogated if that does not fit your agenda. That is the level of ignorance you have got, no one has time for an ignorant who is so persistent to spread hate that he does not care about any proofs. Good luck and as I said before, with your hate Islam is not going to stop. People who are sensible and sincere would find Islam the only religion which is peaceful and close to human nature. But you are so blind that you can't see it even in day light.

Quote:
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill


coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 12:36 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
Any thing I would say, for you that will be abrogated if that does not fit your agenda.

Lying again, my list of abrogations is the list of abrogations listed by ISLAMIC sources.
Quote:
People who are sensible and sincere would find Islam the only religion which is peaceful and close to human nature.

BULLSHIT. Sensible people would reject the hate it teaches and the violence and deceit it (Islam) employs.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 12:45 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
my list of abrogations is the list of abrogations listed by ISLAMIC sources.


You mean far right Christian resources? Far right Christians NOT EQUAL to Muslim scholars. An Engineer cant be a doctor and a doctor can't be a lawyer.

Keep on trolling man. I am not going to answer any of your posts any more. I know you are doing this on purpose because some how it feeds your ego and when I don't reply to your posts then you go crazy LOL
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 01:03 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
Far right Christians NOT EQUAL to Muslim scholars.

There is only one Muslim scholar that counts. That is Muhammad. I relate what he has said and you cannot deny Muhammad is ALWAYS right when it comes to Islam. If you do you are wrong. You, yourself have proven some Muslims lie.
Quote:
I know you are doing this on purpose because some how it feeds your ego and when I don't reply to your posts then you go crazy LOL

You keep coming back to attacking me. I do not have anything to do with what Islam says, do I? By the way, you do not either. Islam cannot be changed, it says so.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 01:13 pm
@coldjoint,
Truth is by nature self-evident. As soon as you remove the cobwebs of ignorance that surround it, it shines clear.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2019 03:52 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
Truth is by nature self-evident. As soon as you remove the cobwebs of ignorance that surround it, it shines clear.

That's very nice as long as you understand Islam is what it says it is. What Muhammad said is the final authority. Which means you are lying, which has also been sourced and explained.

One more time Islam is a supremacist, violent, intolerant religion and has no place in Western civilization which is VASTLY superior in every way.
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