Americans are losing the Victory... Check it out!

I am referring specifically to Bills original post, about the American military being lashed by the public for the crimes during the war.

And I am totally confused about your comment "Iraq asked the US to invade it". Not sure where you are getting that from. I don't think America should have gone into Iraq at all. They hadn't picked a fight with us (as far as I'm aware).

If you don't see that as adding some perspective to the debate, you're not trying.

I am referring specifically to Bills original post, about the American military being lashed by the public for the crimes during the war.

And I am totally confused about your comment "Iraq asked the US to invade it". Not sure where you are getting that from. I don't think America should have gone into Iraq at all. They hadn't picked a fight with us (as far as I'm aware).

You guys really can't see the similarities, eh? Yes FreeDuck, WWII was a good idea, even though it caused massive destruction and poverty on a large scale... and war is hell. The point is; there has always been a percentage of the population that will predict the worst. I've seen posted dozens of Vietnam era headlines always to a volley of agreement... so sure are we that our efforts will ultimately fail. Here you have a story that draws a direct parallel to the sentiments many A2Kers spread about Iraq daily. How do they respond? With the typical scorn, that any such story receives, if it doesn't Blame America First.

OCCOM BILL wrote:

If you don't see that as adding some perspective to the debate, you're not trying.

Is this thought as a linking for joining the discussion?

I am just a little disappointed to see you toss about lines like 'you liberals' and 'Blame America First' as it seems to be signalling a bit of a shift in your thinking. I don't recall you parroting right wing garbanza like this before the election.

I am just a little disappointed to see you toss about lines like 'you liberals' and 'Blame America First' as it seems to be signalling a bit of a shift in your thinking. I don't recall you parroting right wing garbanza like this before the election.

There is a very big difference between what went on in the aftermath of WWII, which according to your article involved massive looting by US soldiers, and what is going on right now in Iraq. In Iraq, we are the sole reason there is a problem there in the first place. It was our choice when where and how to invade. We had a responsbility to plan the aftermath. We apparently had a very good previous example, the one you've posted about, to learn from. It could be that everything will turn out okay in the end, but that doesn't make what's going on right now acceptable, and it doesn't excuse the lack of planning and poor decision making that is the hallmark of the architects of this war

real simple dlowan those people felt as they do now before..but were hedging their bets just in case...now that they've swallowed that mandate and earned capital nonsense they feel empowered and have no need to pretend to be reasonable....just my thought on it....

We are not the sole reason there is a problem in Iraq. A couple million people suffered untimely deaths there in the last decade, while the world body via the UN funneled Billions of dollars to their killer. Said killer had a history of invading peaceful neighbors, using WMD and financing terrorist activity. Don't let your opposition to our chosen cure convince you there was no disease. This story specifically targets those who want to insist we've already lost... successfully I might add.

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

real simple dlowan those people felt as they do now before..but were hedging their bets just in case...now that they've swallowed that mandate and earned capital nonsense they feel empowered and have no need to pretend to be reasonable....just my thought on it....

You call that thought, BPB? If you two really want to know what changed, look in the mirror. I retain all of the ill feelings towards George Bush I had before the elections. You guys unfortunately, are so bitter in your defeat that you can now only see my conservative views and have lost all tolerance opposing views altogether. Where you used to attack the portions of my posts that you had a problem with, now it's always an attack on me for posting my thoughts at all. Get over your loss and stop blaming me for your intolerance.

OCCOM BILL wrote:

We are not the sole reason there is a problem in Iraq. A couple million people suffered untimely deaths there in the last decade, while the world body via the UN funneled Billions of dollars to their killer. Said killer had a history of invading peaceful neighbors, using WMD and financing terrorist activity. Don't let your opposition to our chosen cure convince you there was no disease. This story specifically targets those who want to insist we've already lost... successfully I might add.

We are the sole reason war came to Iraq. No matter the rationalizations provided, we went when and how we chose. Reminding people that Saddam has been a prick for over 20 years does nothing to bolster the argument that we did not f*** things up there. It only highlights our immorality in making him an ally when he was at his most brutal and aggressive. Blaming the UN is rather childish as well.

The story you provided does illustrate one thing, that reconstruction is pretty darn difficult. It's too bad you didn't send that clipping those who were 'planning' the occupation.

The single point of posting the story is to remind these folks that history is still being written and their opinion that we'll fail is nothing but a guess at this juncture.

well of course it call it thought Bill...and I don't recall attacking you personally since the election....in fact you're one of the guys I try to have a little give and take with....I was bitter way before the election because I knew and predicted if you recall, that bush would win and we were screwed...I stand by all my statements and thoughts and kindly suggest that you're being a little hyper sensitive.....

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

"We believe, that all men have a right to equal justice under law and equal opportunity to share in the common good. . . . We believe that all men are created equal because they are created in the image of God. From this faith we will not be moved Our efforts have brought new hope to all mankind. We have beaten back despair and defeatism. We have saved a number of countries from losing their liberty. . . . Events have brought our American democracy to new influence and new responsibilities. They will test our courage, our devotion to duty, and our concept of liberty. But I say to all men, what we have achieved in liberty, we will surpass in greater liberty."

"Democracy alone, of all forms of government, enlists the full force of men's enlightened will. In the face of great perils never before encountered, our strong purpose is to protect and to perpetuate the integrity of democracy. For this we muster the spirit of America, and the faith of America. . . . Our own well-being is dependent on the well-being of other nations far away. We have learned that we must live as men, not as ostriches, nor as dogs in the manger. . . . Almighty God has . . . given our people stout hearts and strong arms with which to strike mightily blows for freedom and truth. He has given to our country a faith which has become the hope of all peoples in an anguished world."

OCCOM BILL wrote:

The single point of posting the story is to remind these folks that history is still being written and their opinion that we'll fail is nothing but a guess at this juncture.

Just as opinions about our success may be also a bit premature.

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

well of course it call it thought Bill...and I don't recall attacking you personally since the election....in fact you're one of the guys I try to have a little give and take with....I was bitter way before the election because I knew and predicted if you recall, that bush would win and we were screwed...I stand by all my statements and thoughts and kindly suggest that you're being a little hyper sensitive.....

You are correct, BPB, which unfortunately means I'm wrong. Sorry to hit you with that blast. My sentiments are accurate by my estimation, but should not have been directed at you. There are a number of names who would fit better, but attaching them would only serve to further derail the thread. My apologies all for my part in that derailment.