11
   

Catalonia wants out; Spain says no

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2017 08:46 am
Spain poised to seize and occupy Catalonia.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/catalan-independence-protests-next-move-as-spain-attempt-control/

BARCELONA, Spain -- A pro-independence party in the Spanish region of Catalonia is calling for "mass civil disobedience." They are upset about the Spanish government's unprecedented decision and attempt to take over Catalonia's government.

The political crisis has escalated to the point that Spain's central government is, in essence, saying "we'll take over now" as they seek to impose direct rule in Catalonia, CBS News correspondent Seth Doane reports. Some leaders in Catalonia are plotting their next move.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2017 08:53 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Spain poised to seize and occupy Catalonia.
You may have missed that, but Catalonia is part of Spain. (The "Statutes of Autonomy" of different Spanish regions doesn't put them outside the Kingdom of Spain.)

Perhaps you missed what happened yesterday and today, too?
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2017 09:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Generally, I think, that since societies change, constitutions can't forever mirror the ideological, political and cultural balance within society.
An amendment to the 1978 Spanish Constitution granting the right to self-determination could perhaps resolve the issue - if approved by all Spaniards.

Spain's constitution's article 155 really is a 'nuclear option' as is proved now.
Spain's Senate is expected to approve a federal takeover of Catalonia's regional government on Friday.

Polls show Catalonia's roughly 7.5 million residents are divided on the issue of independence, though the vast majority are in favour of a legal referendum to settle the issue once and for all.
I do hope that such happens.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2017 12:49 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
[...]
Catalonia’s vice-president has warned Spain that its decision to impose direct rule has left separatists with little choice but to embark on the creation of a sovereign Catalan state, increasing speculation that a unilateral declaration of independence could be made within the next 48 hours.

Speaking before a Catalan government meeting on Wednesday evening, Oriol Junqueras said the central government’s insistence on using the Spanish constitution to suspend regional autonomy had forced the hand of those who want to break away from Spain.
[...]
He stressed that he was speaking only for his party and not the Catalan government, but added: “We also understand that the Spanish government is giving us no other option than to defend the civil rights and citizens’ rights through the best tools that our institutions have.

His remarks came hours after the Catalan president, Carles Puigdemont, turned down an invitation to appear before the Spanish senate to defend his government’s bid for independence as the upper house of Spain’s parliament prepared to approve plans to strip him of his powers.

A spokesman for the Catalan government said Puigdemont would not attend the senate because the Spanish government had already made it plain that it would push ahead regardless with its measures to suspend regional autonomy under article 155 of the Spanish constitution.

He said Puigdemont had no intention of attending another senate session on Friday.
Source
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2017 01:29 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I was full of opinions on all this early on in this thread, first being pro Catalonia separating and then backing off since I just don't know enough from here in New Mexico, and at least partly because it's not really my business... though I was put off to read about the police violence.

Thanks for the update, Walter.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2017 07:08 am
@ossobucotemp,
Quote:
OCTOBER 26, 2017 / 12:36 PM / UPDATED 7 MINUTES AGO

BARCELONA/MADRID (Reuters) - Catalan president Carles Puigdemont is set to call a snap regional election, political allies said, a move that could help break a one-month deadlock between the Madrid government and separatists seeking a split from Spain.

The uncertainty remained high however as Puigdemont who had announced he would deliver an address at 1.30 p.m. (1130 GMT), first delayed it by one hour and then canceled it, triggering speculation he could still change his mind.

Several members of his pro-independence coalition said he would dissolve the regional parliament and call the vote. The regional broadcaster said he would deliver a speech in the assembly at 5 p.m., as had initially been planned.

Barcelona-based La Vanguardia said he would call the vote for Dec. 20 and was taking the decision in a bid to persuade the government of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy not to enforce direct rule in the region, which he might do as soon as Friday.

The Catalan secessionist drive is Spain’s worst political crisis since the military dictatorship of Francisco Franco ended in 1975. It has fractured society and hundreds of companies have left the region.

It is also the most serious challenge to the integrity of a Western European country since an independence referendum in Scotland in 2014, when voters in the end chose to stay part of the United Kingdom.

European leaders fear it could spur secessionist ambitions in other parts of the continent.

But cracks appeared late on Wednesday in the independence coalition as some members backed an election while others said there was no alternative to independence.

Within minutes of Thursday’s developments, several pro-secession lawmakers and mayors announced they were stepping down.

“I don’t share the decision to call an election. I am resigning as a lawmaker and a member of PdeCat (Puigdemont’s Catalan Democratic Party),” said Jordi Cuminal on Twitter.

Several hundred people also took to the streets and gathered on Placa Sant Jaume, in front of the Catalan government’s headquarters in central Barcelona.

“Puigdemont traitor,” a big banner read.

Far-left party CUP, a key support for Puigdemont’s minority government, said it would oppose a vote.

“Until now, pro-independence supporters had one problem: the Spanish state. If elections are called, they will have two,” it said on twitter.
Source
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2017 07:37 am
I would like to thank Walter for keeping us informed. Those darned Germans . . . my other source for news about this on-going crisis is DW radio.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2017 08:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Meanwhile the above report has been updated [not uncommon re news about Cataonia in the last time]:
Catalan leader to call election as Madrid readies take over of independence-seeking region
Quote:

[...]
The developments add to the confusion and turmoil in one of Spain’s gravest political crises since its return to democracy four decades ago.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2017 09:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Now, Puigdemont has ruled out dissolving the regional parliament and calling a snap election.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 07:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
A couple of minutes ago, the Catalan Parliament has voted for the independence of the autonomous region: 70 votes in favor, 10 against and 2 blank ballots.

The opposition had left the Chamber before that vote.(Lawmakers from the Socialist Party, the People’s Party (PP) and Ciudadanos)

The Parliament of Catalonia ("Parlament de Catalunya") is formed by 135 members ("diputats").
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 08:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
And as to expect, the Spanish Senate has approved the removal of power from the Catalan regional government.
Prime Minister Rajoy can now take a firm stand against the leadership in Barcelona.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 11:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Since it's published in the Spanish Official State Gazette BOE, all the legal procedures can start or have started already ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 12:58 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Meanwhile, Spain has dissolved the Catalan parliament.
The date for new elections is set on December 21.

A spokesman for the public prosecutor's office told the French news agency AFP that "public prosecutors will file a complaint for rebellion against Carles Puigdemont next week," adding similar lawsuits could be filed against other members of the Catalan government and parliament. (Under Spanish law, the crime of "rebellion" is punishable by up to 30 years in prison.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 11:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The the situation over the weekend will be heated.
No one knows whether the Catalans will not defend their government, their officials and their institutions. For example, with human chains - and how the Spanish police react. At least skirmishes between demonstrators and police officers no longer rule out even the otherwise emphatically peaceful Catalans.

And as already mentioned: behind the border to France, in "Roussillon" - or "Northern Catalonia" as the nationalists call the region - there are already villas available for the Catalan government.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 05:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The deposed Catalan government keeps silent. Neither the previous Prime Minister Puigdemont nor his deputy have so far publicly commented on Madrid's official takeover of Catalonia.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 05:08 am
One wonders if they have the freedom or ability to speak out.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 05:31 am
@Lash,
I don't know how this is regulated by the Spanish criminal law/criminal procedure law.
Perhaps just via their lawyers? Or via a spokesperson of the their parties? Newspapers or other media?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 07:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
BARCELONA, Spain -- Catalonia's separatist leader has called on Catalans to peacefully oppose Spain's takeover, in a staged appearance that seemed to convey that he refuses to accept his firing, which was ordered by central authorities.

Carles Puigdemont said in a brief statement that appeared to be pre-recorded that "we will continue working to build a free country." Spain's La Sexta TV channel simultaneously showed live footage of Puigdemont having lunch in a bar in central Girona, his hometown, occasionally interrupted by residents who asked him to pose for selfies.

Puigdemont's appearance on public regional TV3 broadcaster showed him speaking from a podium with the official emblem of the Catalan regional government. Behind him there were the Catalan and European Union flags, but not the one from Spain.
Source



Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/sbB74S2.jpg

My own screenshot from above mentioned tv-report. It was titled:
El missatge de Puigdemont: "La millor manera de defensar les conquestes és l'oposició democràtica al 155"
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 07:34 am
Quote:
The UK will not recognise the Catalan parliament's declaration of independence, Downing Street says.
Theresa May's official spokesman said the declaration was based on a vote that had been declared illegal.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41783238

A terrible blow for the Catalans seeing as how everybody is so interested in what Theresa May has to say.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 08:57 am
https://www.courrierinternational.com/sites/ci_master/files/styles/image_original_765/public/assets/images/chappatte_2017-10-22-3669.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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