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Catalonia wants out; Spain says no

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 01:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont has sought to sidestep a 10 a.m. deadline to clarify whether the region had declared independence from Spain. He asked instead for two months of talks with Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy.
However, the letter did state that Catalonia's parliament had a "democratic mandate" to declare independence after October 1's disputed referendum.

Now, it could well be that the Spanish government goes ahead with the plan to invoke Article 155 on Thursday, the second deadline Rajoy gave Puigdemont.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 05:40 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Madrid moves towards direct rule over Catalonia
Quote:
MADRID/BARCELONA (Reuters) - Catalan authorities must drop a bid for independence by Thursday, the Spanish government said, moving closer to imposing direct rule over the region after its leader missed an initial deadline to back down.

In a confrontation viewed with a mounting sense of unease in European capitals and markets, Carles Puigdemont failed on Monday to respond to an ultimatum from Madrid to clarify if he had declared independence.

Plunging Spain into its worst political crisis since an attempted military coup in 1981, Catalan voters backed a breakaway in a referendum on Oct. 1 that Spain’s Constitutional Court said was illegal.

On that basis, Puigdemont made a symbolic declaration of independence last Tuesday, but immediately suspended it and called for negotiations with Madrid on the region’s future.

Madrid had given him until 10:00 a.m. (0800 GMT) to clarify his position on independence with a “Yes” or “No”, and until Thursday to change his mind if he insisted on a split - saying it would suspend Catalonia’s autonomy if he chose secession.

Deputy Prime Minister Soraya Saenz de Santamaria said after the deadline passed that he had not answered the question and had to do so by Thursday.

“Mr Puigdemont still has the opportunity to start resolving this situation, he must answer ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to the declaration,” Saenz de Santamaria said.

In a letter to Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy made public on Monday, Puigdemont did not directly answer on the independence issue, instead making a “sincere and honest” offer for dialogue between the two men over the next two months.

In reply, Rajoy said Puigdemont’s stance had brought Madrid closer to triggering Article 155 of the constitution, under which it can impose direct rule on any of the country’s 17 autonomous communities if they break the law.

Suggesting Puigdemont and his team remained in no mood to follow Rajoy’s game plan, Catalan interior chief Joaquim Forn said Article 155 did not allow Madrid to remove members of the Catalan government.
[...]
The Catalan government says 90 percent of voters in the referendum backed a breakaway, but turnout was only 43 percent as most opponents of independence in the region boycotted it.
[...]
The terms of Article 155 on direct rule, which has never been applied, are vague.

It says that when a region does not meet its constitutional obligations or other laws, or goes against the general interest, the government “can adopt any measure needed to force those obligations to be met” once receiving approval from Spain’s lower house.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 06:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Apparently the Catalans have until Thursday.

Quote:
The Spanish government has said that the head of the Catalonia region has failed to clarify whether he declared independence last week.
In a letter to Madrid on Monday, Carles Puigdemont instead called for negotiation over the next two months.
Spain's Deputy PM Soraya Saenz de Santamaria said Mr Puigdemont now has until Thursday to clarify his position.
The Spanish government has warned that Catalonia must revoke the declaration or face direct rule from Madrid.
Last week Mr Puigdemont signed a declaration of independence, but halted its implementation to allow negotiations.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41632084
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 06:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
NYT: Where’s the E.U. in the Catalonia Crisis?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 06:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Canvey Island pushes ahead with Catalonia-style bid for independence
Quote:
The Canvey Island Independent Party (CIIP) which has 14 of the island’s 17 seats on the council, is now pushing ahead with plans for a breakaway.

Its elected representatives say they are using Catalonia’s bid for independence as an inspiration. The Spanish region is currently the subject of a major dispute after it voted to become a separate state.

While Catalonia has a population of around 9 million, Canvey Island is home to just 38,000 people and measures seven square miles in size.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 06:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Let's hope they do it, we'll be well rid.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 07:24 am
Rising sea levels from global warming will put paid to that problem--along with Benfleet and Thundersley. In fact, Essex, Suffolk and Norfolk will all become considerably smaller.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 11:41 pm
@Setanta,
Pro-independence supporters have now called for further protests today, demanding the men's release, after a Spanish judge has remanded two key members of the Catalan independence movement in jail.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 12:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Just seen that myself.

Quote:
A Spanish judge has jailed two key members of the Catalan independence movement.
Jordi Sánchez and Jordi Cuixart, who lead prominent separatist groups, are being held without bail while they are under investigation for sedition.
The men were leading figures in the 1 October independence vote, which the Madrid government regards as illegal.
Their detention led to protests overnight, with more expected across Catalonia on Tuesday.
Mr Sánchez, who heads the Catalan National Assembly (ANC), a pro-independence organisation, and Mr Cuixart, leader of Omnium Cultural, appeared before the High Court in Madrid on Monday.
They are being investigated over a protest on 20 September in which a crowd blocked Civil Guard officers inside a building in Barcelona, Catalonia's regional capital.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41646142
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 08:25 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Demonstrations in Barcelona, Tarragona, Lérida and Girona after Spain high court jails Jordi Sánchez and Jordi Cuixart

Thousands of people have taken to the streets of Catalonia to protest against a judge’s decision to detain two prominent pro-independence leaders, as tensions between the Madrid and Barcelona governments continue to rise.
Full report @ The Guardian
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 08:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Guardian: Catalonia: what next for the independence movement?
Quote:
[... ... ...]

Will the application of article 155 bring an end to the crisis?

Extremely doubtful. The Catalan independence effort has acquired momentum over recent years and most campaigners say they are in it for the long haul. Similarly, the Spanish government can’t afford to back down when it comes to such a direct challenge to national and territorial unity.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2017 02:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
After the latest Spanish deadline for the Catalans expired, the office of Spain's prime minister is scheduling an "extraordinary meeting" to consider revoking Catalan powers, saying this would "restore legality."

However, Catalan leader Puigdemont said the regional parliament could vote on a formal declaration of independence from Spain if the central government failed to hold talks with Catalonia.
reuters: Spain to trigger suspension of Catalan autonomy on Saturday[/url

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2017 03:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I think things are going to get worse before they get any better.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2017 06:39 am
As an aside:

article 155 of the Spanish Constitution ...
1. If an autonomous community [autonomous Spanish region] were not to fulfil the duties imposed upon it under the Constitution or other laws, or were to act in a manner that gravely attacked the general interest of Spain, the government, having first notified the First Minister of the autonomous community and, in if no reply were received, with an absolute majority in the Senate, may adopt the measures necessary to oblige that [region] to forcibly comply with said duties or to protect the aforementioned general interest."
2. To execute the measures foreseen in the previous section, the government may give instructions to all of the authorities in the autonomous communities.


... and article 37 of the Basic Law (German constitution) ...
(1) If a Land [German state] fails to comply with its obligations under this Basic Law or other federal laws, the Federal Government, with the consent of the Bundesrat, may take the necessary steps to compel the Land to comply with its duties.
(2) For the purpose of implementing such coercive measures, the Federal Government or its representative shall have the right to issue instructions to all Länder and their authorities.


... are actually very similar.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2017 02:55 pm
Quote:
European Council President Donald Tusk has explicitly ruled out any EU action over Catalonia, despite the "concerning" situation.
"There is no room, no space for any kind of mediation or international initiative or action," he said.
He was speaking at a joint news conference with EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker.
Catalans voted to secede in a 1 October referendum, which was outlawed by Spain and has prompted mass demonstrations.
Mr Tusk's remarks came hours after Spain said it was beginning the process of imposing direct rule on the autonomous region.
"I am of course for many reasons in permanent contact with (Spain's) Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy," Mr Tusk said.
"There is no hiding that the situation in Spain is concerning, but our position... is clear."
He was speaking ahead of an EU Council summit, but said the issue of Catalonia was "not in our agenda".
Other European leaders, including Germany's Angela Merkel and France's Emmanuel Macron, also threw their support behind Madrid.
Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin said the crisis exposed Western hypocrisy, which backs some separatist movements but not others.
He argued that Western nations had supported the independence of Kosovo from Serbia - a Russian ally - but not Catalonia or for Iraqi Kurdistan.
He also raised the opposition of many nations to Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, which resulted in international sanctions against Russia.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41683390
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Oct, 2017 03:59 am
@izzythepush,
reuters:
Quote:
The Spanish government has agreed with the opposition Socialists (PSOE) to hold regional elections in January in Catalonia as part of the extraordinary package of measures to temporarily impose direct rule on the region, Socialist politician Carmen Calvo said in an interview on national television on Friday.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 12:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
In Catalonia, language and identity go hand in hand
Quote:
[...]
Language is a thorny issue in Catalonia. Because of its troubled history of repression and its strong link to Catalan identity and nationalism, it quickly becomes a subject of controversy and debate among the political forces in Catalonia.

Just this week, the Catalan language system and educational model were at the heart of the debate again. Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish minister of Foreign Affairs, had declared in a recent interview that, in Catalonia, "schools teach Catalan, English, French and German, but not Spanish."

Xavier Garcia Albiol, the leader of the Catalan branch of the People's Party, added more fuel to the fire after declaring that Catalan kids are "taught to hate Spain," and the Citizens party last week presented a motion aimed at "preventing the 'indoctrination' of Catalan pupils."

[... ... ...]
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 02:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
NYT: Article 155: The ‘Nuclear Option’ That Could Let Spain Seize Catalonia
Quote:
[...]
Spaniards, in particular Catalans, are set to discover Article 155, just as British citizens learned the importance of the once-obscure Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, the mechanism for leaving the European Union.

Like several other provisions of the Spanish Constitution of 1978, Article 155 was modeled on the text of the federal constitution of what was then West Germany.

It allows the central government to suspend some of a region’s autonomy under specific conditions. But it is ill-defined and has already prompted a debate among legal experts about exactly how the government can suspend or remove powers now held by Catalan authorities.

Barcelona: A Global City in the Eye of a Separatist Storm OCT. 20, 2017
The article allows the government to intervene in one of Spain’s regions if its autonomous government “fails to fulfill the obligations imposed upon it by the Constitution or other laws, or acts in a way seriously prejudicing the general interests of Spain.”

It is such a broad instrument that its use has been considered only once before, in 1989, when Felipe González, the Socialist prime minister, threatened to wield it against the Canary Islands to force it to comply with tax obligations.

The second part of Article 155 calls upon the government to “issue instructions” to restore constitutional order, which is why legal experts are also now debating how Mr. Rajoy’s government could use Article 155 to seize back power in Catalonia if faced with a full-blown insurrection.

Given the lack of precedent, however, Mr. Rajoy starts with a blank canvas. He could make Article 155 as broad or narrow as he wishes, as well as keep its measures in place for as long as he deems necessary.

One option may be to use it to suspend from office Catalonia’s political leadership, starting with Mr. Puigdemont, but also including other lawmakers and to dissolve the Catalan Parliament to force early elections.

Mr. Rajoy and his government could also suspend other Catalan officials across the region’s public administration, from the leadership of the Catalan autonomous police force to the directorship of the Catalan public television and radio broadcaster.
[...]
Will there be new elections in Catalonia?

Almost certainly yes, but it’s not clear when and who will convene them — nor whether they would really help end the conflict.

Mr. Rajoy’s government and other party leaders in Madrid have been urging Mr. Puigdemont to hold new elections rather than push ahead with his secessionist plan — so far to no avail.

Mr. Rajoy could perhaps use Article 155 to force new Catalan elections — probably around the end of the year or in early 2018 — after dissolving the existing Catalan Parliament.

Mr. Puigdemont, on the other hand, could try to pre-empt Mr. Rajoy’s move by himself calling new elections in Catalonia, on his own terms.

Either way, it’s unclear that elections would change Catalonia’s political landscape significantly. A new vote might only strengthen separatist parties. The Spanish government and courts could try to ban parties that advocate secession, but it is also possible that part of the Catalan electorate would boycott the vote, further muddying the waters.
[...]
Whatever Mr. Rajoy’s government decides, Spain’s judiciary could also step in more forcefully and even order the arrest of Mr. Puigdemont and others for sedition. Earlier this week, a judge from Spain’s national court ordered prison without bail for two separatist leaders, pending a sedition trial.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 06:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
MADRID (Reuters) - Spain’s Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy on Saturday said he would curb the powers of the parliament of Catalonia, sack its government and call an election within six months in a bid to thwart a drive by the autonomous region to breakaway from Spain.

Rajoy said his government had taken this unprecedented decision to restore the law, make sure regional institutions were neutral, and to guarantee public services and economic activity as well as preserve the civil rights of all citizens.

The measures must now be approved by Spain’s upper house, the Senate, where a vote is scheduled for Oct. 27.
reuters
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2017 11:20 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I've mention the Catalan movements in France already.

Now, supporters of the pro-independence cause decided to offer hospitality to President Carles Puigdemont, his family and his teams.
The Catalan Unitat and the "Committee for the self-determination of Northern Catalonia" (Comité pour l'autodétermination de la Catalogne Nord), have been mobilising for several days now to find housing and organise logistics.

"We have been in contact with the Catalan President ", explains Robert Casanovas, the President of the Committee for Self-determination of North Catalonia. A villa located in Théza is at his disposal so that he can lodge there for as long as he wants.
Source: France Bleu [French radio station]: En cas d’exil, le gouvernement catalan a désormais un point de chute à Perpignan
0 Replies
 
 

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