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Catalonia wants out; Spain says no

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 09:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The French Catalans don't give a torro's ass for 'independence', and I don't see Macron protecting Puigdemont and co.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 09:18 am
@Olivier5,
The head of the Catalan representation in Berlin, Marie Kapretz, has declared the vote of the Spanish Senate to place Catalonia under forced administration ineffective.
"I am very glad that Parliament in Barcelona voted for Catalonia's independence an hour earlier. Through this decision, we have taken a step towards independence and are therefore no longer bound by directives vis-à-vis Madrid." Kapretz told the Berlin-based "Tagesspiegel" newspaper today.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 09:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I hope Madrid processes with caution. If the Spaniard mess around too much, the risk is that the independentists wll win the next election by a large margin.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 10:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Perhaps you didn’t anticipate what’s happening now.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 11:00 am
@Lash,
I'm rather sure that you don't have a different TV3 - Televisió de Catalunya than I watch. Or are you actually now viu a Catalunya?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 11:11 am
@Olivier5,
When the Seperatists take part in the elections, the proponents of independence admit that Catalonia is by no means independent and must continue to dance after the pipe of Madrid.
However, if the separatists do not take part in the elections, they will not be represented in the new parliament. Thus, the way would be cleared for Ines Arrimadas, the chairwoman of the liberal Ciudadanos.

These two possibilities are extremely bad for Puigdemont - I wonder, if there's still a third, namely a compromise.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 03:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
the Seperatists take part in the elections, the proponents of independence admit that Catalonia is by no means independent and must continue to dance after the pipe of Madrid.

Symbolically, yes. But they could still win if the Spanish goverment is perceived as too heavy-handed.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Oct, 2017 08:03 am
@Olivier5,
Hundreds of thousands are demonstrating for Spain's unity in Barcelona today (Guàrdia Urbana de Barcelona, Barcelona's municipal police, says "about 300,000", while the organisers, Sociedad Civil Catalana, say it's 1.3 million.)
The motto is "Tots som Catalunya, per la convivència, seny" (We are all Catalonia, for coexistence, common sense).
This demonstration is supported by three Catalan political parties: Partit Popular, Ciutadans and Partit dels Socialistes.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Oct, 2017 09:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Good to see some sense injected in that story.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Oct, 2017 11:41 am
@Olivier5,
This afternoon, there was football match: proud Catalans (FC Girona) taking on the big boys from the capital (Real Madrid) in La Liga.

For the first time in 38 games, Madrid have suffered their first La Liga defeat in their last 59 games against a newly promoted side (2:1).
There was awful lot of noise from the Girona crowd, especially Ronaldo was booed any time he got remotely close to the ball. But I don'z think that there was any "political noise". [I've watched the match on tv.]
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Oct, 2017 12:04 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
But I don'z think that there was any "political noise". [I've watched the match on tv.]

Of course it should be "don't".

And I don't want to give a wrong impression: Girona fans did hold pro-independence Catalan flags.

(Even after a possible independence, the Catalan teams might still play in La Liga: Monaco isn't in France, Swansea and Cardiff aren't in England, Vaduz isn't in Switzerland.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2017 06:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The Spanish state prosecutor also called on the leaders of the Catalan independence movement to be called to testify in court.

Meanwhile, Catalonia's parliament cancelled a meeting scheduled for Tuesday following the Spanish government's takeover of the region, a parliamentary source told the news agency Reuters, confirming the regional legislative had accepted Madrid's order for it to dissolve.

It remained unclear on Monday if government officials and regional lawmakers who declared Catalan independence on Friday would seek to gain access to their offices and if the Catalan police Mossos d'Esquadra would prevent them.

The region's ousted president, Carles Puigdemont, on Monday morning posted a photo of a courtyard at the seat of the regional government in central Barcelona, accompanied by the words "Good morning" in Catalan and a smiley emoticon. It remains unclear if he is inside the premises.
Source
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2017 07:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Several media report that Puigdemont is on the way to Belgium respectively already there.
The Belgian state secretary for migration, Theo Francken, had said that Puigdemont (and others from the Catalan government) might be able to apply for asylum in Belgium - I thought that to be a Flemish folk tale from an extreme right-wing populist.

And the separatist party of deposed Catalan President Carles Puigdemont announced on today that they would take part in the regional elections, which were called on 21 December by the Spanish state,
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2017 07:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
According to SkyNews, AP, and the Spanish/Catalan El Periódico and La Vanguardia, there will be a press-conference shortly by Puigdemont in Brussels where he is said to be with most of his ministers.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2017 08:06 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Looking back a couple of centuries, Puigdemont travelled from the Marca Hispanica ("Spanish March", aka "March of Barcelona") to the heart of the Frankish Homeland

https://i.imgur.com/g5KJn7q.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2017 09:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Journalists are still waiting in front of the Catalan delegation office in Brussels ... and Belgian media speculate that he might have asked for asylum in a different EU-country ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2017 11:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
According to the Catalan tv, Puigdemont and part of his government are in Brussels, "in a safe and discreet environment"

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/DtfLQBL.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2017 12:04 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
According to Belgian media, Puigdemont is on the way to Brussels.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2017 01:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Carles Puigdemont is indeed in Belgium. (He flew from Marseille to Brussels in a private plane.)
This afternoon, he had a conversation with attorney Paul Bekaert, whom he appointed as his advisor.
Paul Bekaert, who is specialised in human and asylum rights, confirmed the meeting in an interview with the Belgian news agency Belga.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2017 04:41 pm
This is an opinion piece by José Andrés, the Spanish/American celebrity chef, a truly intranational Spaniard who was born in Asturias and went to live in Catalonia and speaks at least three of the languages in Spain.

It’s time to give a voice to Catalonia’s silent majority

Quote:

...

If you’ve been following the events in Spain over the past few months, you’ve likely read one of two opposing narratives: that of a hard-headed federal government keeping Catalans from their democratic right to vote, or of a rogue group of misguided politicians leading Catalonia off a political and economic cliff. But in between these two extremes is the true story of Spain and Catalonia, where I and millions of other Spaniards find ourselves.

In Spain they call us the silent majority. The last polls released before the Catalan government’s controversial Oct. 1 referendum showed that a clear majority of Catalans were opposed to independence. And a poll released this weekend from Metroscopia found that 46 percent of Catalans feel as Spanish as they do Catalan, compared with just 19 percent who feel exclusively Catalan. That includes people like me, Asturians and Valencians and Andalusians who have made Catalonia their home over the past four decades, as well as many voters born and raised in Catalonia who love both their region and their country. We may have been less vocal than the separatists, but we cannot remain silent any longer; to do so would make us complicit in the demise of our country.

To be clear, this is not just a Catalan issue. This is a Spanish issue, as the fate of one of its largest and wealthiest regions has a deep impact on the lives of all 46 million Spanish citizens. It’s unreasonable to think you can unilaterally make decisions that will affect the lives of all of us —politically, economically, socially.

...
more...



He blames both sides, supports the independent vote, but is against the demise of the country.
0 Replies
 
 

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