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Duct tape and plastic sheeting.

 
 
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2003 10:23 pm
Duct tape and plastic sheeting: Weapons of minimal protection

De je vu! It's the 1950s again. Children told to get under their desks, kneel forward and cover their heads to protect themselves from nuclear bombs.

High risk - color orange.
Something happens. --- We told you so.
Nothing happens. --- See! We were successful in stopping them!

Well maybe many people will benefit by learning that the spelling is
"d-u-c-t" tape, not "duck tape" Some might even learn the derivation of
"duct" tape.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 19,471 • Replies: 418
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2003 10:26 pm
if it walks like a duct, talks like a duct, looks like a duct, it must be john ashcroft.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2003 10:26 pm
They say that if you're outside at the time of an attack (this after discussing dirty bombs) to lay on the gound and cover your head. I thought the same thing - 1950s....
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2003 10:37 pm
Tell me which would make you feel safer:

You buy plastic sheeting and duct tape. You cover every window and door, making sure no air gets in, and you stay inside.

You buy plastic sheeting and duct tape. You wrap and bind the executive, judicial, and legislative branches our government completely, cutting them off from all outside air. You walk away.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2003 10:45 pm
Gee ... I'm already prepared ... around here, windows are commonly "Shrinkwrapped" against winter ... keeps out drafts and 25MPH/25 Below pretty well, and its much less tacky looking than Duct Tape and plastic sheeting. Duct Tape and 48" wide 100 foot rolls of plastic sheeting, clear or black, are just about staple items on a farm, anyway. They're usually in the barn somewhere near the WD40 and the ViceGrips.



timber
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2003 11:05 pm
Tartarin wrote:
Tell me which would make you feel safer:

You buy plastic sheeting and duct tape. You cover every window and door, making sure no air gets in, and you stay inside.

You buy plastic sheeting and duct tape. You wrap and bind the executive, judicial, and legislative branches our government completely, cutting them off from all outside air. You walk away.


I vote for option 2!
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2003 11:22 pm
and after they drop the big one....
http://users.nehp.net/marbles/ducttape/images/globe.jpg
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2003 11:23 pm
Oh my....... hey, where's the coat hanger?
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 12:06 am
Its good to see that we've all retained our sense of humor.

1. A terrorist attack on an American urban area is not only possible, it is likely. Explosives have in the past been the preferred weapon of choice, but not always. Sarin was used in the Tokyo subway, and there is a reasonable chance that terrorists will use a chemical, biological, radiological against an American target.

2. Some American urban areas are more likely than others to be hit, and some urban areas are improbable. Port cities and cities with high symbolic value are at greater risk than cities deep within our heartland. However, the attack(s) can come at any time, and at any place. The level of concern should be appropriate to the location you live in.

3. Plastic sheeting and duct tape makes for good jokes, but they have long been regarded as the best response to air-born toxic chemical agents. If you can seal off a room, your chances of survival are greatly increased. Chemical, nerve-agents, and low-energy radio-active particles can be screened out by these measures. Biologicals are more difficult to protect against only because they tend to be more presistant.

These air-born toxins can be expected to disperse down-wind from the point of origin. In the case of chemical agents time and distance quickly reduce the lethal effectiveness. Nerve-agents will remain toxic for a longer period, but will eventually be so diffuse that they will present a greatly reduced risk. Weather conditions are the essential variable. Temperature, air pressure and humidity all play a role in the effectiveness of these weapons. Most important are wind direction and speed. Light and variable winds tend to increase the effectiveness of the agents within relatively short distances of the dispersal point. Higher winds reduce the time any given point will be exposed, and will more quickly lower the ppm to ineffective levels. The contamination will be in the shape of a triangle with the apex is the point of origin. The further from the dispersal point in space and time, the less the danger. Outside the path of the wind-born toxin the danger is almost non-existent. Listen to your radio emergency band, it will help you determine how long you need to remain in quarantine. For most of these agents, the danger will pass within six hours -- perhaps less.

Radioactive fallout behaves somewhat differently. The fallout pattern will be an elliptical cigar shape down wind from the point of origin. How "fat" the fallout pattern is will be determined by the same climate conditions described above. The most dangerous areas will be the center line of the fallout pattern. Rain tends to wash the contaminants out of the sky, and heavier particles will fall more quickly than light ones. Danger zones are dependent upon how concentrated the radioactive particles are. The important thing to remember is to thoroughly wash down with water anything where fallout particles may have fallen. The radioactivity is no more likely to get into a well sealed off room than a chemical agent, but the fallout is much more presistant.

Your water supply will probably be alright, but bottled water is a good idea until authorities have an opportunity to test the local supplies. Contaminating water is regarded as difficult by many analysts, but error on the side of caution if you are in an area that has been attacked with these unconventional weapons.

4. These are scary weapons, but their actual lethality is much less, and effective use is much harder to accomplish than generally supposed. Remember, an attack using these weapons are intended to frighten and panic you more than they are intended to kill. There may be substantial casualties, but the number can be kept to the minimum if you keep your wits about you and you are prepared.

5. Though we are told that an attack can be expected within days, I believe that the danger will reach it's peak after 18FEB, and remain very high until the military stands down in Iraq. Don't let the danger screw up your life, but remain alert and aware of your surroundings.

6. Wake up America. This is serious business. There are people out there who want to kill YOU, and they are perfectly capable of it.

Have a nice evening.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 02:07 am
Lovely image, Mr Stillwater.

Hmmmm Asherman ...ok, if attacked it makes sense to try to survive - but it is soooooooooooo ridiculously reminiscent of the old "duck and cover" campaign to survive nuclear war that you cannot blame us for laughing.

I love the old instructions for surviving nuclear war - spread your legs as wide as they will go - bend over - gradually push until your head is between your legs - now! kiss your arse goodbye!
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 06:47 am
Quote:
Keep the young paralyzed, educated by your lies.
Keep the old ones happy with the news.


Beside the 9/11 attacks, can you give me evidence of one more attack or attemp on american soil? For more than a year and a half nothing happened but the Bush administration keeps warning and keeps feeding the fear. Because that fear paralyses the mass to see the real problems in the US. The 30 mio people living on food aid programs, the tax plan that only serves the rich and powerful, the corporate fraud,.... Those are the real problems of the US today.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 08:05 am
Ashcroft warns "terrorists plot big light in sky likely to cause dozens of melanomas" millions on eastern seacoast strip stores of tin foil, duct tape and poly-vinyl chloride sheeting for home manufacture of radiation protection gear. National Academy of Sciences speaking from an undisclosed location, having be banned by the Bush Administration for contradicting the newly formed Presidential Commission for Upholding the Jerry Falwell Institute for faith based reality, explains the sun comes up every morning and recommends use of sun screen. Stocks of Alcoa and 3-M soar.
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New Haven
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 08:18 am
Be sure to soak your eye glasses in Chlorox Question


Nonsense! Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 08:35 am
Bunny,

Hey, its alright to laugh and joke about the situation. That's a legitimate way to deal with a morbid subject. Just don't forget that behind the jokes there is a risk that someone, perhaps a lot of people will die. Everyone has a good laugh about a wild-eyed terrorist blowing-up the NY skyline, and an hour later .... See my point?

There is a level of risk everywhere that Western Culture dominates, but the probabilities vary. The risk in the Australian "out back" is about as low as it can get, however the risk to major cities and symbolic locations does rise to the level of concern. My assessment is that the risk in Australia is about the same as in Albuquerque, NM. That's pretty low.

Frolic,

There have been no successful attacks on American soil since 911. You will note my emphasis. Planned attacks that were foiled might not be publicized for a number of reasons. Silence prevents public un-necessary public panic, protects our intelligence sources, enhances counter intelligence initiatives, and sows uncertainty and anxiety in enemy hearts that can have beneficial results. You might say that "perhaps, no attacks have been foiled". That's entirely correct, maintaining a veil of secrecy has its down-sides and often isn't possible at all.

There are more accessible reasons that there hasn't been an attack since 911. Breaking up the Al Queda training camps, and command structure in Afghanistan disrupted the organization The pressure on Al Queda and other terrorist organizations has remained high throughout the world and made it difficult for them to mount any operations. Al Queda that may have once numbered in the tens of thousands is today reduced to a much smaller number, and the cells must be much more circumspect about their activities. Pressure placed on terrorist safe-havens, sponsors and suppliers makes logistical support more difficult and has reduced the money supply to some extent. Covert operations have been mounted against terrorist organizations further isolating cells from one another. Individuals and cells inside the United States have been arrested and broken-up, thus preventing them from carrying out attacks. Finally, American security has become better than it was pre-911. Americans are more alert and aware of the danger.

The failure of terrorists to successfully carry out an attack since 911, isn't because they didn't want to. American intelligence, police and military assets have been successful and we should be thankful for their efforts -- not insulting. This administration has carried out a resolute effort to defend the nation, even though public support has not been strong. Many here and abroad make the most outrageous charges against our government and leadership in extremely intemperate language. In the end we will emerge victorious against terrorism, if the course is kept, and our values vindicated.

You point out that there are other problems. You've got that right, and some of them are serious problems that need to be dealt with. I have much less faith in this administration's ability to handle the economy than I do in its ability to counter terrorism. I'm not sure anyone could be entirely successful managing the economy under the current circumstances.

You mention hungry Americans, but there are other millions in the world who are starving, or who suffer from untreated disease. There are places in the world where no freedom of speech, or dissent is permitted, and where not even the semblance of a trial precedes the execution. I'm sorry for all of them, even the poor people here who have to struggle along with only one color television set and a boombox. The first priority is to defeat those who would destroy us by violent, sneak attacks.

I don't agree that the American People are paralyzed by fear. I see no evidence of it. People go about their daily business pretty much as usual. There habits haven't changed much, and crowds of people gather to enjoy themselves or protest government policies. If anything, it seems that the American Giant would like to snuggle back under the covers and return to dreamland.

Don't go back to sleep.
0 Replies
 
chatoyant
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 09:19 am
Duct tape and plastic sheeting might help people survive an attack and then again it might not. I'm as worried as everyone else about what might happen, but I'm going about living my life as usual. I'm not going to live in fear, and if that's what the future holds, I'm not so sure I want to be here anyway.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 09:55 am
Obviously hastily put together annoucement without the editing necessary to keep the comics off their neck. Dubya's statements about terrorists intending to ruin our large economy has been used as fodders for such lines as, "President Bush has succeeded in making our economy smaller so it's less of a target."
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 10:00 am
Asherman, all that is well and good except that it's unlikely that anyone will be able to race into one room and tape it shut during a chemical or biological attack. If they're suggesting taping up a room in the house now, it's reminiscent of the A bomb shelters of the Cold War (as if those who can afford it have done away with there's -- one of them exists under the Capitol building) It's virtually worthless against a biological attack and marginally effective against a chemical attack -- no more pragmatic than trying to carry around a gas mask. We drive out each day in the most deadly of weapons in the world today -- the automobile. I think the duct tape needs to be used where it's most effective -- over the mouths of the stupid white guys running things.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 10:03 am
They'll get my duct tape when they rip it off my cold, dead mouth.
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 11:09 am
Actually, in the event of a chemical attack most people would have time to secure themselves -- if they've done just a bit of planning. It takes time for the winds to disperse chemical agents. Those in the immediate vicinity have little time, but those further away or just outside the most intense part of the dispersal pattern will have some time.

Select a room in advance. Interior rooms, or those with the fewest outside windows are generally best. The plastic and tape are to seal any cracks that might exist where a toxic agent can enter. Heating and air conditioning ducts have to be sealed off. Locate in your room those places that will need to be sealed off, and cut the appropriate sized plastic to do the job. Store the plastic sheeting and you duct tape in the room where it can be gotten to without delay. A good radio and water should be available. If an chemical attack is made on your community, local authorities will issue a warning and instructions as soon as possible. Some communities have had good warning plans in place for the last five years, and have periodically tested them. Unfortunately, most people never bothered to learn what those plans were.

The moment you become aware of an attack, go into your preselected room. Seal it up and turn on the radio. Not hard to do. If you aren't at home, seek shelter as best you can. In an automobile, keep the windows rolled up and recirculate the air inside. Drive carefully out of the area, and wait for the all clear. You will be much safer inside any building than on the streets. Offices should shut off their airconditioning and heating systems, since those draw air in from outside. Look around you and think ahead ... where is the nearest cover? If I were attacked now, what would I do? Situational awareness is not expensive, and it can improve your odds.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 11:23 am
It's been proven that duct tape also removes warts, dys.

All well and good, again, Asherman. Your perfect scenerio would only work with effective advance warning that the attack is taking place (a supposition that civil defense is as good as we're are being lead to believe). I doubt that anyone would be able to get to the room and tape up the windows in time if they were warned that they could be down wind from an ensuing attack. If they are at the center of the surprise attack, they're not going to be around to tape up windows with duct tape. It's difficult to not intepret the duct tape announcement as cynical.
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