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Equalization of funding is desirable for Texas public school

 
 
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2004 02:51 pm
Resolved: Equalization of funding is desirable for Texas public schools. Here is the UIL spring topic. Have at it!! Very Happy uhg! now i will have to read about the actual laws governing this. I love reading but...not that. Oh well. Any ideas?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 21,838 • Replies: 210
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hyper426
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 10:35 am
Yes, I know that this topic sucks, but ya'll could atleast help me out, since i am gonna have to debate it
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 10:54 am
Wouldn't it be desirable for all public schools? I'm not even sure what the counter argument could be.
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binnyboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 12:40 am
One counter-argument (and I've actually heard this argued, given the "ruggedly individualistic" mindset here in texas) is that the rich live in rich neighborhoods and pay high property-value-based school taxes to their local schools and expect a nicer school for their kids than the low-income folks down the road. They think since they pay more, their kids should get it better.

But I think that it is pathetic that we live in a country where people think the rich are rich because they work for their money. That concept is going to be at the bottom of any argument against equal funding for texas schools.
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Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 01:02 am
With equalisation you maintain at least some pretense of a merritocracy.
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rmrrose820
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2005 06:28 pm
I would venture to say that with equalization you lose all pretense of a meritocracy. If you work hard for something only for it to be redistributed to others who have not worked as hard, there is no merit-based reward for your work. All incentives are removed. Equalization is a socialist ideal and has no involvement in a meritocracy.
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hyper426
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2005 09:12 pm
hmmm....good point. I hate this topic. This is not going to be a fun debate
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2005 09:59 pm
Many poor folk actually work as hard or harder than many rich folk. The disparity between wages is what sets them apart.
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nikki djor69
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 02:15 pm
Funding for TX public schools....rough topic
I need some help. This topic is hard and this is my first year... my school is in the process of requesting an appeal for this same matter though so how can i manipulate my school's dilema to help me? I feel too strongly to one side and i need somebody who feels strongly for the other to tell me what they think. I'll tell you everything if you help me too. Please?

OH-and a simple point that means alot that i feel everybody should consider: just b/c somebody(rich adult) earns more money than another person doesn't mean that they work as hard or in the same sense. additionally just because you are succesful and want your children to be too doesn't mean u have the right to hinder another child's opportunity of success. would u rather more succesful people or the same families over hundreds of generations. the poor don't ask to be born to poverty. it's not our fault. we try just as hard if not harder.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 03:54 pm
I'll tackle the negative argument, as long as it's understood that I am strongly in favor of the resolution as a matter of personal ideology.

(Some history is in order. As I understand it -- meaning I may not have all of these facts straight -- the prior method of school financing in Texas was commonly referred to as "Robin Hood"; i.e., larger school districts with greater numbers of taxpayers and tax dollars subsidized the poorer ones by being compelled to 'share the wealth', so to speak, according to a complex formula. But the Texas Supreme Court ruled this unconstitutional on the basis of Robin Hood's inherent "taxation without representation" aspects.)

Quote:
"It is the contention of the negation that equalization of funding is not desirable for Texas public schools, because there is simply no method of funding that would enable the school districts across a state as vast and disparate as Texas to be equalized.

The rural school districts of West Texas and the Panhandle, which have fewer taxpayers (and consequently fewer tax dollars), fewer students, a greater challenge of attracting teachers based on their ability to pay competitive salaries, many more miles to bus students to school, and other expense factors will always be at an inherent disadvantage to the school districts of the major metropolitan areas in terms of funding -- Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin, etc.

This should not be interpreted to mean that the quality of education of less-well-heeled school districts should similarly lag the well-to-do ones.

Rather than concentrating on an unattainable goal -- equalization of funding -- the rural districts must raise their quality of educating Texas students in areas they are better equipped to address with little to no increase in expenses, such as training and retaining teachers and having those teachers focus on individual instruction (as their class sizes are smaller than the urban districts'). Steps such as these cost nearly nothing extra and would show potentially dramatic results.

This would begin to bring the principles of capitalism into focus relative to the public school system in Texas.

If a voucher system were introduced, then the free market would be unleashed to produce the results we have seen in every other walk of life: schools competing for students by offering outstanding curricula and top-notch instructors, with those most successful (schools as well as students) reaping the benefits.

Because public school funding can never (in practice) hope to achieve the goal of equal funding, because competition -- the free market system, upon which so much of our country's success is based has proven itself to be to the best way to reward excellent organizations, the negation contends that equalization of public funding for Texas school districts is not desirable."


How's that?

(Now go Google "Robin Hood Texas schools", and "public education voucher", and some other combinations to make sure I know what I'm talking about.) :wink:
0 Replies
 
hyper426
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 06:54 am
Thanks.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 08:46 am
You're welcome, and welcome to A2K.

Stick around, and let us know how your debates go.

(I was a UIL debater thirty years ago meeself, and I'm delighted to help. This year's topic sounds like a great one to be boxing around.)
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nikki djor69
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 02:43 pm
Do you want more info?
Wednesday I am getting a colee professor to assist me on building my case and researching it and everything so-if any of you want me to tl you wan i find out- e-mail me at [email protected]. Oh and thanks for yor reply PDiddie!
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hyper426
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 06:36 am
I won't use this topic until Distric, which is a couple of months away. At least I will have time to really build a good case. Hey PDiddie, and anyone else, any ideas for value and criterion? I feel that those are going to be the hardest parts of the case to build.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 10:37 am
hyper426 wrote:
I won't use this topic until Distric, which is a couple of months away. At least I will have time to really build a good case. Hey PDiddie, and anyone else, any ideas for value and criterion? I feel that those are going to be the hardest parts of the case to build.


Do you mean evidence for the negative contention that I made?

If so, then I suggest Googling some of the terms, as I mentioned in a previous post. if you mean something else, please clarify for me.

("When-I-was-your-age-I-had-to-walk-five-miles-to-school-in-the-snow" analogy: My debating partner and I would go to the library and pull out the card files to look up texts and periodicals to do our research and reference work. Took us hours and hours for days and days. You kids got it easy.)

hype, if this is the district topic, what is the preliminary topic? Are y'all debating something different in the run-up to district? Maybe this has changed since I was in high school, but back in the day we used to have one topic for the year, and one or two forensic tournaments with other schools early in each semester leading up to the spring UIL competition. What's going on right now?

nikki, I'm not going to bug you with more e-mail to reply to. Just keep us posted here, when you have time. And do yourself a favor and delete your e-address from your last post, unless you just want to have lots more spam and the occasional leering freakizoid-dirty-old-man in your inbox.
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willwork4idiots
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 01:36 pm
ok...call me stupid, but couldn't you use justice as a value on either negative or affirmative?

Justice could be determined as equality for the affirmative, so achieving equal educational standards through the equalization of funding would therefore achieve justice.

But, on the negative side, you could say that justice should not involve stealing from the rich just to give to the poor. Taking from others is not justified.

For a criterion, John Locke's property rights might be good for the negative. Money is a man's property, therefore the government has no right to take it away and give it to someone without as much money.
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hyper426
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jan, 2005 06:55 am
PERFECT!!!! I will tweak it to fit my cases, but that's a great way to look at it. OK, PDiddie, I will answer your Q's. I do TFA (Texas Forensic Association) tournaments before District, instead of other UIL tournaments (use District topic). My topic for that is another post (Democracy is best served by strict separation of Church and State). So, I won't use this topic until I go to District. In UIL, we have a fall and spring topic, with the spring topic being used for District and above. Maybe that is because research is soooo much easier? And with the value and criterion, it is like Idiots said. In LD (Lincoln-Douglas) Debate, we do value debate, not policy like CX. We have to uphold a human value over our opponents, like justice, or democracy, etc. The criterion is something which better defines our value, and the way we use it. Hope that helps!!
0 Replies
 
hyper426
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jan, 2005 06:56 am
PERFECT!!!! I will tweak it to fit my cases, but that's a great way to look at it. OK, PDiddie, I will answer your Q's. I do TFA (Texas Forensic Association) tournaments before District, instead of other UIL tournaments (use District topic). My topic for that is another post (Democracy is best served by strict separation of Church and State). So, I won't use this topic until I go to District. In UIL, we have a fall and spring topic, with the spring topic being used for District and above. Maybe that is because research is soooo much easier? And with the value and criterion, it is like Idiots said. In LD (Lincoln-Douglas) Debate, we do value debate, not policy like CX. We have to uphold a human value over our opponents, like justice, or democracy, etc. The criterion is something which better defines our value, and the way we use it. Hope that helps!!
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jan, 2005 07:35 am
hyper426 wrote:
I do TFA (Texas Forensic Association) tournaments before District, instead of other UIL tournaments (use District topic). My topic for that is another post (Democracy is best served by strict separation of Church and State).


Aha. I've seen that thread but haven't clicked on it yet.

Quote:
So, I won't use this topic until I go to District. In UIL, we have a fall and spring topic, with the spring topic being used for District and above. Maybe that is because research is soooo much easier? And with the value and criterion, it is like Idiots said. In LD (Lincoln-Douglas) Debate, we do value debate, not policy like CX. We have to uphold a human value over our opponents, like justice, or democracy, etc. The criterion is something which better defines our value, and the way we use it. Hope that helps!!


Fascinating. What a great program. Now I'm envious of more than just the fact that y'all have computers (and we didn't).
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CunningLinguist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jan, 2005 09:24 am
Debate: Equalization of funding
I would be very appreciative if i could receive some help with my case. I am currently stuck on my affirmitive and i could use a few contentions because i am stuck, thanks.
0 Replies
 
 

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