Were you once a Christian?

I don't know from which part of religious philosophy comes the idea that "the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons from generation unto generation" but it wasn't an idea that found fertile ground for the growth of religion in a country descended from convicts. It was in fact interpreted as a statement that we obviously could never amount to anything. Then about 150 years ago Australia produced it's first world sporting champion (don't ask me the man's name). In the sport of single sculling, one of the few truly international sports of the time. The northern rivers of NSW produced many successful athletes over many years. And it became a way for a young nation to say hey, we're just as good as anyone else. And the result in modern Australia is that 45 000 people worked as volunteers at the Sydney Olympic games, praised as the best ever, and both the Olympics and Paralympics sold more tickets than any other previous games. (Paralympians said they had never seen crowds like that anywhere in the world. Many had never performed in front of sold out audiences before) And organisers can presell 150 000 tickets to a cricket match where the series has already been decided.

The Aussie religion is sport, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

The first religious influence on me was Christianity. I have long been thinking myself to be a Christian. Then I have received infleunces from multiple religions which include zen Buddhism, or Taoism. Now, I am a "Deist" not limited to Christianity. I do not think I changed my belief. I think I am learning more and more with the lapse of time.
I feel more confortable with art of Christianity than any art of religious theme. "Secular" art is not included in this comparison.

I'm an agnostic -- converted from Catholicism.

I simply came to the conclusion that everything about religion was guesswork -- and agnosticism was the most ethical way to deal with that.

None of the agnostics I know had any particular trauma which lead to their becoming agnostics.

Wilso, you say that the Aussie religion is sport. Does this mean that the Christian churches have no influence in Asutralia?

Well , it depends on which code they support.....

Or which team?

I was raised in an extreme fundamentalist home. But I cannot remember ever believing in God. It all sounded like a silly story to me, not unlike Santa Claus for whom I also had no belief (I'm the youngest of 5 and was told in my cradle about Santa.) I have seen way more than my share of hardheaded, depressed, sadistic, controlling, fanatical, fun hating folks. I don't believe in Christianity because it makes no logical sense and reason is the only thing I trust.......other than a few very good friends and they have other redeeming qualities.

I was -- and still am -- a Christian. If you are not, that's okay with me. Deep within all of us, we each have our own beliefs.

Thanks Williamhenry3
God Bless

Lola - hope you count me in on the Christian friend side
Reason cannot produce faith. Faith is always consistent with reason, yet reason cannot produce faith, in a Spiritual way of thinking. Faith sortof implies an assurance (which is another word for evidence, it may be hard to tell the difference between them - a big problem in all discussions our Faith at A2K) that Christ loved me, and gave Himself for me. It is by this faith we are saved, justified, and sanctified.

"Think and let think" John Wesley
"If we cannot think alike, at least we may love alike" and "Can anything but love beget love?" John Wesley

COMMENT:

We are discussing "faith" in another thread at the moment.

It is my contention that (especially in the theistic context) there is no difference between "faith" and "blind acceptance."

If a person says, "I believe there is a God" or "I believe the Bible tells me about God and about what God expects of humans" -- and then fortifies that with "I have faith in those beliefs"-- the person is making a statement about unknowns -- and then essentially insisting that those statements are true despite the fact that they have no real evidence that that is so.

They are blindly accepting those things.

Don't you agree???

Frank Apisa..

If a person says, "I believe arithmetic is consistent" or "I believe the statistics, as a methodology, is consistent as it is based on arithmetic and mathematics", then the person is blindly accepting the things. Do you agree?

i would suppose that arithmetic is a methodology consistent with experience whereas faith is sans reason or observational/repeatable verification ergo arithmetic is a useful tool. neither containing "truth"

There is no vital difference, in the nature of the statements, between

"I believe in God"

and

"I blieve in the consistency of arithmetic."

Experience does not prove any theorem of arithmetic. Never.

Satt

You are way off base -- and dys set you straight.

Arithmetic is the result of conventions.

We have givens.

1 = a single unit.

2 = two of those units

They we set up working arrangements so that the numbers can be manipulated.

The parameters are established based on conventions.

If you think the statements:

"2 + 2 = 4"...and

"I believe there is a God"...or "I believe the Bible tells us about God"...

...why in the hell do you use the words "I believe..." in those statements?

If someone were to ask you "How much is 2 + 2 -- would you say, "I believe it is 4" -- or would you say "4?"

Why the difference?

Arithmetic does not stop at "2+2=4."

COMMENT:

You're right, Satt.

But I wanted the theists in the thread to understand me also, so I tried to keep it simple.

(That was a joke -- one you obviously set up. I had to take advantage! It would have been rude not to.)

Frank Apisa..

It might well be a joke.
An idea of tossing a coin infinitely many times to verify the probability would be a joke also.

Church experiences, for me, were mandated by foster parents, home staff or, other caretakers. I asked for help, he didn't respond. Suddenly realized at an early age that self-sufficiency/reliance probably a better route than prayer. After that, church attendance was by compliance rather than faith.

COMMENT:

Not sure I understood where you meant by that, Satt.

But if it something you consider important, I'd like to respond.

If you restate it, I'll do that.