Were you once a Christian?

au:

"mombo jumbo"?

I thought you were a Talmud scholar.

It does not happen very often. Majority of people here are religiously indifferent. Missionaries activities are illegal here (though, no one has ever been arrested or prosecuted), and Christian institutions respect the national law of the country.
A small number of people come to Christianity themselves, after having read the New Testament. I remember that in one of the broadcasts of the national TV around 5-6 years ago took part a Franciscan Catholic monk that was born as an Israeli Jew.

New Haven, are there any Christians that have converted to Judaism in the USA (except Elisabeth Taylor that did this for matrimonial purposes)?

steissd
If I read you correctly the "Sabras" look down on converts. However, there is no discrimination relative to Christians.
Actually I can understand how they feel.
New Haven
Jewish conversions to Christianity is not common in the US. What is common is intermarriage and a falling away of religion? The children of these marriages normally end up if they have any religion at all as Christians. It is much easier.

New Haven


The last time I read or studied the Talmud I was 13 years old. That was over 60 years ago. I attended the Lebavicher Yeshiva for about 4 years and flirted with ultra orthodoxy. It wasn't for me having been brought up in a secular Jewish household.

New Haven, I do not have statistical data, but my own impression is that the absolute majority of Jews both in Israel and abroad are secular.

I tried very hard to become a Christian many years ago. It didn't take. I remain an atheist.

Edgar - you almost sound like you wanted it to take? Or tried to give it a chance. I'd be interested in knowing about that journey.

I have to admit that I sometimes get frustrated with the nonchristian view here at A2K. Hence my question to get a better understanding.

Just so you know I'm not out to convert or tell anyone here they're going to HELL (it's N/A)

Curiously enough, you CAN do one without giving up the other. There is a movement for Messianic Judaism, practicing jews that accept that Jesus was the messiah. No, I'm not making this up.

I understand that there are messianic jews in Israel, but not sure of their status. Another grouping are the Falashas, the Ethiopian jews airlifted into Israel during the 1980s, they have a tradition that does not incorporate many of the laws and practices of later Rabbinical teachings.

Interesting responses.
steissd was enlightening.
My sympathy to equus. A former girlfriend's mother had terrible experiences with her parents rigid stance as Christian Scientists.


I was brought up, formally, as a Catholic (my parents went to church only for ceremonies). I studied with the Jesuits.
At age 13, I went to the US, as a boarder in a school run by Augustinian priests. I made both philosophical and social questions to myself, and -when expressed to the priests- they would answer with intollerance.
I left the church, but not some of the main beliefs of Christianity. Those, I discarded at age 16. By that time, the only important thing of Catholicism and Christianity for me was the possibility to use it against social injustice (Liberation Theology).
I became an agnostic, close to atheism, but never quite an atheist. Somehow I still had magical thoughts, associated with my mother's syncretic (Yoruban-Catholic) beliefs. Then, step by step, I became more of a believer: yes, there is a God, some sort of cosmic force-intelligence. It doesn't have to do with religion, in the strict sense. I don't practice any.
I am not anti-religious. Some churches do good social things. And most do satisfy the human need of belonging, trascending and healing.

Husker - what frustrates you about the non-christianity of a2k?

I have told this tale before. All familiar with it please feel free to skip to the next post.
I knew next to nothing of Christianity. My family never mentioned the topic at all. Once, a minister asked my siblings and I if he might be welcome to pick us up for church every Sunday. About the same time my mother bought a set of books telling the stories from the Bible in simple enough language that a kid like myself could easily read the set from volume one all the way to the end of the final volume. I took the minister's words literally. He made it seem that Christians have the answers to a rewarding life. I, being an abused child, one who worried a great deal about his mother, wanted those answers. I attended church faithfully. But I could never get past seeing so many of the Christians' actions and words as chimerical. I strained to overcome disbelief, but nothing worked. The more I learned about God the less I believed in him. In the end I accepted myself for what I am and am perfectly content to be a non believer.

There are Jews for Jesus. These people claim to be Jews but believe in Jesus. This as far as I can see just another way proselytize Jews. They may believe in a religion but it is definitely not Judaism. The Falashas are quite a different situation. They have be practicing Jews for well over two thousand years however far from the Jewish mainstream. It is quite understandable that there be differences.

Was brought up agnostic leaning towards atheist. Both parents came from a Quaker tradition. Have worked with the American Friends Service Committee on peace and justice projects which also attracted many Jewish volunteers. Have had a number of friends over the years who have converted to reform Judaism, friends who came from lapsed-Christian families for the most part. I've always had a sneaking dislike for institutions of any kind, including religious institutions. Fundamentalist Christianity troubles me a lot. In the same way, I am anti-Zionist. As an artist who lived and worked for a long time in a Catholic country in Europe, I'm enamored of Catholic imagery and particularly Romanesque churches...

Tartarin - I love religious architecture and iconography.

According to the definition of the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary zionism is .
What exactly in zionism causes your objection? Do you object to the very existence of the State of Israel? Or do you deny the very right of the Jews to have a national state of their own?

I used to be a Christian, I don't know what I was thinking. To be perfectly honest I wasn't.

The minute I started thinking about it my faith lessened greatly. I continued to believe invoking a "just in case" clause.

If it was wrong it was no big deal, but if it was right there was Hell to avoid.

Then I realised that believing for the "just in case" clause DOES matter. It meant accepting what I'd come to believe was a lie. I mulled it for years and finally decided that there was no way that I could maintain a belief that I thought had no justification or support.

This decision came after much effort to find some way to maintain the belief. The beliefs were comforting and familiar but in the end they were simply too false (IMO) for me to assosiate with in any way.

Interesting observations, Tartarin. I've read many times that catholicism appeals to intellectuals and artists owing to the rich imagery and the complex ritualism tied into an intricate theology. Queen Christina of Sweden, arguably the most intelligent woman in European history before Mme Curie of whom we have a record, invited René DesCartes to Stockholm. He accepted, and they would arise each morning early, so as to meet at about 5:00 a.m., allowing them to read, study and debate for a few hours before she took up her daily, regal duties. I don't know that this was the proximate cause of her conversion, but it is suggestive. It was said that she spent the remaining years of her life in Rome, making the local aristocracy regret that she had converted.