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Mother shames her own children on a national stage.

 
 
Reply Wed 19 Jul, 2017 08:06 pm
This really upset me. I can't imagine as a parent ever doing this to my kids, she is being emotionally abusive.

Children (even boys) should be raised in a nurturing environment where they are supported for who they are and taught they they are valuable as human beings. If feminists can't do this, they shouldn't be raising children.

Jody Allard wrote:

My sons won’t rape unconscious women behind a dumpster, and neither will most of the progressive men I know. But what all of these men share in common, even my sons, is a relentless questioning and disbelief of the female experience. I do not want to prove my pain, or provide enough evidence to convince anyone that my trauma is merited. I’m through wasting my time on people who are more interested in ideas than feelings, and I’m through pretending these people, these men, are safe.

I love my sons, and I love some individual men. It pains me to say that I don’t feel emotionally safe with them, and perhaps never have with a man, but it needs to be said because far too often we are afraid to say it. This is not a reflection of something broken or damaged in me; it is a reflection of the systems we build and our boys absorb. Those little boys grow into men who know the value of women, the value that’s been ascribed to us by a broken system, and it seeps out from them in a million tiny, toxic ways.

http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2017-07-im-done-pretending-men-safe-even-sons/

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PUNKEY
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 06:53 am
I think she lambasts the "system" more than her sons. She simply says they don't have a chance because of the deference to the culture.

She was wrong in using rape as the standard to make her point.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 07:23 am
@PUNKEY,
This is bad parenting.

Would you tell your kids that they "don't have a chance because of the system"? I have raised boys, and I am raising a girl. There is no way in Hell that I would say anything like to this to any of my kids; not in public and not even in private.

Would you?

It is not the role of a parent to push a political ideology. This is a case where her view of the "system" is taking precedence over her responsibility as a parent.

There are lots of people who raise kids, both boys and girls, to be decent, respectful and responsible adults without a form of feminism that says that boys aren't safe. I don't teach my sons that they aren't safe. I don't teach my daughter that boys aren't safe. I teach all my kids to have safe, respectful, equal relationships.

If you have an ideology your children should still come first.
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 09:45 am
Time after time I have heard where kids commit acts that are outside of their parent's influence or upbringing. We are perplexed when these kids who come from "good" homes commit crimes.

I would suspect that the parents of the boy who raped a girl behind the dumpster never thought he would commit such an act. They are probably horrified by the thought.

I think she fears her boys will be put into situations where they are influenced by the culture (university freedom, drugs, poverty, seduction, etc) and don't have the skills to deal with them.

I think she's just afraid.

I disregard any feminist slant to the article.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 10:22 am
@PUNKEY,
Punkey, this is absurd. This is bad parenting.

The fears that this mother has are her problem. She has this ideological narrative that (as she puts) makes her say that men, including her sons, are "safe". This a political position that she has taken on. For her to put her fears on her kids is grossly irresponsible. It is not the job of a child to make his or her parents feel safe. Nor, is it a child's fault if the mother's ideology makes her feel unsafe.

She is using her kids to deal with her own emotional state. This is bad parenting. Can you imagine how this article sounds from the point of view of her children (not surprisingly, she notes in the article that her sons are rather angry that their mother is treating them this way.)

One of the things that upsets me about feminism is that the ideological narrative is more important than anything else. I agree with the basic idea of equality and safety... but we have gotten to an absurd point where facts don't matter, and parenting doesn't matter as long as the narrative is followed.

It would be nice if feminists could stand up and say; "I am a feminist, but this is absurd". As long as the ideological narrative is more important than facts, reason, or even family this will not happen.

tibbleinparadise
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 12:12 pm
@maxdancona,
It's a common thread in our modern society:

"I feel this way, but it isn't my fault and I don't have any control over my feelings. How I feel is somebody else's fault and everybody else's problem"

I'm married to one. No personal accountability...at all. I have never met somebody so victimized by their own victimization. And don't even point out their own culpability. The narrative always stands: "Not my fault, it's yours and your problem to fix"


tibbleinparadise
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 12:14 pm
@tibbleinparadise,
Also, Max, I know we've disagreed about some things, but I really do appreciate your post here and your thoughts on it.
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PUNKEY
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 01:50 pm
She's afraid of men and that includes her own sons.

Pity.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 02:29 pm
@PUNKEY,
Should someone who is "afraid of men" be raising sons? Or, should someone who is afraid of women be raising daughters?

If you are going to be a parent, you need to get over it.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 02:51 pm
@PUNKEY,
Of course the problem isn't just that she "fears men". She wrote an article in the national media blaming her sons for her fear. This was a piece promoting an ideology. She is making the claim that her "fear of men" is somehow justified, and she is using her own sons to make this point.

This is more than a troubled mom working out her own demons. She is promoting an ideological narrative using her disappointment in her own children to make a very public argument.

I wish that there was someone who could say... "I am a feminist, but this is absurd." So far, no one has been willing to say this.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2017 08:56 am
I had a related experience a little while ago at a party with the parents of my daughter's friends.

One of the mother's explained that she wanted to teach her 9 year old son about consent, so she made him ask for her permission any time he wanted to give his mom a hug. I had the hardest time keeping my mouth shut, at first I stifled a laugh when I realized she was serious. Then I figured that speaking my mind in front of the parents of her friends probably wasn't fair to my daughter... This mother will pay for what she is doing to her son, at least in therapy bills.

Sometimes these ideological beliefs can cause real harm, particularly to kids.


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ossobucotemp
 
  2  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2017 09:14 am
That woman seems what I would call hysteric (I know, nasty old use word).
I've been friends with many thoughtful men, and a lover of some. In all my years, I've been raped once, not by a friend or lover, and treated well a zillion times.
I'm a feminist, but I wouldn't cite me as radical. Radical fems get Max's goat. Sometimes he gets quite exercised about feminism.
I might agree with the rads on some things if I actually ever read their books..
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2017 09:57 am
@ossobucotemp,
I have been very clear. What bothers me about modern feminism is that the ideological narrative often is more important than facts or policy. I don't think the word "radical" is very important. The issue is whether a statement or policy is fact-based, or whether it is accepted because it fits a political narrative.

There is quite a few things where I agree with feminists; Equal pay, reproductive rights, LGBT issues.

My frustration with feminism is that more than any other liberal ideology, it is feminism that is accepted without critical thought. Everything that can be viewed as part of the feminist narrative becomes unquestionable and unquestioned.

I have raised boys and am raising a girl. This is an important issue.

If mainstream feminists could come forward an say "I am a feminist, but this is absurd" it would be a nice step. I certainly willing to call out my own side on an issue when they stop being rational. This is the best way for us to overcome the ideological bubbles in which we live.



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