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Sun 21 Nov, 2004 04:22 am
There are three facets to Bush as I see it...
His obsession with religion. This is what causes him to do stupid things like not fund stem cell research, try to amend the constitution to ban gay marriage, support the law that declared sodomy illegal in Alabama, and support wanting to overthrow roe vs. wade. This is also the facet of Bush, the one that wants to see everyone's lives be dictated by christian ideals, that I have a big problem with.
His foreign policy which at best is idealistic and at worst, naive isn't that out of line with either party. He geniunely seems to believe that turning Iraq into a democracy will start a chain reaction through out the region creating prosperous democracies everywhere. And the idea isn't that obscure. A prosperous islamic democracy could do a lot to finally help the growing insurgancy against monarchy in Iran to boil over and who knows, the Saudis could well follow suit. The same applies to Bush's belief in free trade. He geninuely sees his foreign policy improving the lives of people throughout the world. This is a cause that liberals used to believe in.
And the facets of his domestic policy that aren't out to shove chrisitian ideals down everyone elses throats are geniunely compassionate. The guest worker program is as helpful an approach to illegal immigrants as we could have realistically passed. Hence why there is so much resistance from conservatives over this plan. No child left behind and his increased funding for education are commendable efforts. His drug plan too was a noble effort to help people while ensuring that drug companies would not have to cut research that is funded in large part by America. And even his tax cuts stem more from a false notion that tax cuts to the rich would do more to grow the economy and create jobs than those same tax cuts to the middle class than from any malicious feelings toward the middle class. I really don't have too much of a problem with any of these ideals.
So, if more of Bush's agenda was shaped by geniune compassion rather than religious philosophy, would more of you liberals support him and would less of you conservatives support him for backing things such as the drug plan and the guest worker program that seem to clash with the conservative agenda?
I hate the fundie-Bush too.
I dislike violations of international law, but I suppose I could compromise over Iraq. The US won't be set to invade anyone else for a while yet.
Free trade I could support.
Guest workers, sure but I'd prefer achiving that effect trough free trade.
NCLB, fund it fully. (Though I'd rather just throw the money directly at the problem myself)
Drug plan is foolish. If he had instead passed a law dictating at least two thirds of R and D funds be spent on R and D, research would have increased more, and prises dropped. The Bush plan will increase drug prises if anything, and while it will probably boost research, it is likely to boost republican campaign contributions more.
Tax cuts, I'm against them.
Given the Dems failing to offer a credible progressive agenda and candidate, which they have not but of course I support him over the less than desireable alternative, IMO.
My problem with Bush is his policies. His religion doesn't really matter.
I would oppose Bush regardless of his religion. (Incidently I would support the most religious fundamentalist president if their policies were reasonable).
These are the issue that I feel are disasterous for our country. I would oppose any president with these positions whether they were Christian, Atheist, Wiccan or Orthodox Jewish.
- The War in Iraq. I feel this war is disasterous and immoral. This is by far the most urgent and important issue for me.
- The Defecit. Bush is the first president to give a tax break during a time of war. The record defecits are irresponsible and will doubtless hurt the US in the future.
- Health Care, Medicade and Social Security. In my opinion Bush is favoring the wealthy at the expense of the less fortunate.
- Human Rights. We have abandoned would should be sacred American values in the name of "war on terrorism". The imprisonment at Guantanamo is is a dark stain on America's claim to morality. The erosions of the protections of US citizens to government intrusion is frightening.
Larry,
You make a great point.
I would oppose Bush until he kicks out all the neocons, until he actually takes action to reverse the decline in the quality of life for the working poor, until he stops spending money we don't have - and so on infinitum.
No - thereare plenty of other things about his policies that I strongly disagree with.
It would take my concerns about him down a notch, though.
What I find particularly distressing about his form of Christian fundamentalism is his intuitionism. Apparently he sees little or no need to think things through: a gut feeling is all he needs. (Incidentally, there are atheist intuitionists, too, and I find them almost as frightening.)
But the religious aspects are but a small part of my problem with Bush. Along with others who have responded, I think his policies are so disastrous for America and the world that it doesn't matter to me what they are based on.
JanW wrote:What I find particularly distressing about his form of Christian fundamentalism is his intuitionism. Apparently he sees little or no need to think things through: a gut feeling is all he needs. (Incidentally, there are atheist intuitionists, too, and I find them almost as frightening.)
I find that TERRIFYING - especially when placed with his demonstrated tendency not to listen to cleverer and better informed aides when he is demonstrably, factually, wrong - the story about his insistence that Sweden has no army is an example of this - though a relatively unimportant one. The other concern is that he is more and more insulating himself from anyone with a contradictory view. This, combined with his power - well, all I can say is that I hope American institutions and rational public opinion continue to act as counter-balances. His sort of irrational confidence in his "gut" and insularity and power have proven to be a toxic brew in the past. Prolly more so when people can lead for longer than he can, though. Phew!
JanW wrote:But the religious aspects are but a small part of my problem with Bush. Along with others who have responded, I think his policies are so disastrous for America and the world that it doesn't matter to me what they are based on.
Yes - it would be one thing if it were just the US - a majority of them voted for him - but the extent to which America affects the world - oy veh!
I am only half kidding when I say we all ought to get a vote!
To Centroles' question:
No.
Any man who cannot remember to zip his fly when attending a global conference will never get my support:
That is hilarious. Especially with that look on his face.
No, I wouldn't support Bush because I am opposed to his foreign and economic policy. I am also disturbed by the way in which he makes decisions (closed circle of advisors, little or no dissenting opinion). Because of all of this I don't feel I could support him under any circumstances.
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