16
   

What is religion?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 2 Aug, 2017 06:18 am
@coluber2001,
Quote:
I think it's time to kick the word "religion" in the ass, out the window, cancel it, forget it, and never use it again. Mysticism is a much better fit.

So the question becomes: what is mysticism?
Tell me.
'Mysticism' is what some men turn to when religion has trashed the reputation of God but they still can't shake the feeling that there is something more than random chance behind the universe.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 2 Aug, 2017 07:27 am
@Leadfoot,
Random chance is no way to describe the functioning universe. Everything has properties to determine how it will respond to its environment.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Wed 2 Aug, 2017 07:51 am
I jyst discovered Bert McCoy, a true mystic.

"Don't be so loyal to your mind; the mind is not loyal to You."

Bert McCoy

"Our heads are round so thought can change direction."

Allen Ginsberg
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Wed 2 Aug, 2017 10:31 am
Mysticism is like zen; if you can define it, it probably isn't.
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 08:09 am
@coluber2001,
Quote:
Mysticism is like zen; if you can define it, it probably isn't.

Which makes me wonder why you asked us to..
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 08:22 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Random chance is no way to describe the functioning universe. Everything has properties to determine how it will respond to its environment.

Well, science disagrees with you. It says Without random chance, the first living organism would never have formed and evolution would never have made us.

If you are saying that the universe is a giant game of billiards where one incredible break shot at the beginning resulted in all the right balls falling in the pockets, then I'd say that took one hell of a pool shark to make it. In that case, you could be right.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 09:22 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Well, science disagrees with you. It says Without random chance, the first living organism would never have formed and evolution would never have made us.

Can you provide a source for this, thanks.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 09:40 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Mysticism is like zen; if you can define it, it probably isn't.

Which makes me wonder why you asked us to..

I was just trying to start a dialogue, trying to stay on the subject. That's why I'm using all these quotes, because a lot of people can say what can't be said better than I.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 09:45 am
"I have become so accustomed to think “scientifically” that I am afraid even to imagine that there may be something else beyond the outer covering of life. I feel like a man condemned to death, whose companions have been hanged and who has already become reconciled to the thought that the same fate awaits him."
P.D. Ouspensky, "A New Model of the Universe"
Glennn
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 10:35 am
@coluber2001,
Our physicality is temporary. In that sense, we are all as terminal as any terminal patient; we were condemned the moment we were born. Then comes the question of whether consciousness springs forth from matter, or matter springs forth from consciousness; is your body projecting a consciousness, or is your consciousness projecting a body? Either way, there's nothing to fear, as termination of your being is of no consequence, and continuation of your being is of no concern.

Religion is an attempt to arrange ideas in a way that addresses fears of . . . something.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 11:50 am
@Glennn,
I think the idea that the physical springs from the mental is simply the patriarchy trying to usurp the role of the female's power of physical creation. The male's creative ability being limited to the mental wants power over feminine nature and female influence. This occurred historically with the destruction of the Goddess cultures in Europe and Mesopotamia by the patriarchal dominated cultures. And it has become institutionalized in the mindset of the anti-nature contemporary cultures.

And I might add that the institutionalized religious and secular aspects of the western cultures have reflected this anti-nature anti-female patriarchal, destructive mindset.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 12:04 pm
There! Prose easily becomes diarrhea of the mind. I'm not immune either.

Here's a dose of Pepto Bismo:
"Don't be so loyal to your mind; the mind is not loyal to you."
Bert McCoy

I feel a little better.

And:
"We are dying from overthinking. We are slowly killing ourselves by thinking about everything. Think. Think. Think. You can never trust the human mind anyway. It's a death trap."

Anthony Hopkins
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 05:55 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Leadfoot wrote:
"Well, science disagrees with you. It says Without random chance, the first living organism would never have formed and evolution would never have made us."

Infra replied:
Can you provide a source for this, thanks.

It's hard to believe you need verification on something so fundamental to the theory of abiogenesis and evolution but I'll assume you are familiar with the subject and give the most basic reason.

Regarding abiogenesis:
The 4 nucleotides making up RNA/DNA will bond together from natural causes but since there is no preference in which order they bond, it is only
random chance that determines the order in which they bond.

Evolution:
It only happens when random mutations are reinforced by natural selection. No random mutations, no natural selection.
Glennn
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 07:53 pm
@coluber2001,
Quote:
I think the idea that the physical springs from the mental is simply the patriarchy trying to usurp the role of the female's power of physical creation. The male's creative ability being limited to the mental wants power over feminine nature and female influence. This occurred historically with the destruction of the Goddess cultures in Europe and Mesopotamia by the patriarchal dominated cultures. And it has become institutionalized in the mindset of the anti-nature contemporary cultures.

And I might add that the institutionalized religious and secular aspects of the western cultures have reflected this anti-nature anti-female patriarchal, destructive mindset.

Yup! It's all part and parcel of the theme that runs through the Bible concerning the feminine aspect of humanity. The god has no mate--no counterpart. His son has no mate--no counterpart. The apostle Paul claims it is good for a man not to touch a woman. And we have the father, the son, and the holy ghost; not the father, the son, the mother, and the sister. It would appear that, biblically speaking, the female aspect of humanity was relegated to ghostly status.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Thu 3 Aug, 2017 09:27 pm
@Leadfoot,
What you wrote here has virtually nothing to do with what I wrote.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 4 Aug, 2017 08:30 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
What you wrote here has virtually nothing to do with what I wrote.


Quote:
What Edgar wrote:
Random chance is no way to describe the functioning universe. Everything has properties to determine how it will respond to its environment.

You made an absolute statement without context. Not religion, metaphysics, science, math, whatever.

You don't buy the 'God' story and we have ruled out science, So WTF was it supposed to be about? Are you going all mystic on us?
coluber2001
 
  1  
Fri 4 Aug, 2017 09:52 am
"To think, or not to think...This is the true question."
Bert McCoy

"It has taken me quite a few years to realize the fact that most of the thoughts in my head are not necessary."
Bert McCoy
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Fri 4 Aug, 2017 09:55 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
You don't buy the 'God' story and we have ruled out science, So WTF was it supposed to be about? Are you going all mystic on us?


Hopefully!
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Fri 4 Aug, 2017 02:15 pm
@Leadfoot,
No cite?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sat 5 Aug, 2017 08:01 am
@InfraBlue,
I know you are educated enough not to need a citation of this virtually universally accepted principle of evolution in science but if you must have one, here it is.
Quote:

What is the major cause of evolution?
Response: The four forces of evolution are: mutation, gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection. Mutation is a random heritable change in a gene or chromosome, resulting from additions, deletions, or substitutions of nitrogen bases in the DNA sequence.
Chapter 4: Genes and Their Evolution: Population Genetics | ...
www.wwnorton.com › anthro › answers

But what is the real point you want to make?
 

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