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Is it ever a good idea to indoctrinate children?

 
 
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 12:22 pm
Is it ever a good idea to indoctrinate children?

To instill in them the idea of a supernatural or the lack of a supernatural as God or no-God respectively and to claim either one as the end-all solution to the mysterious is to repress the mysterious in the mind of the child. This, to me, is the ultimate affront to the child.

For, as Einstein said, “The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

And Joseph Campbell said, "The ultimate mystery of being is beyond all categories of thought."

 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 12:39 pm
Not if you love them. Someday, at least when they're 18, if not sooner, you will need to release them to be themselves. to live their lives. Not even an attempt to indoctrinate them in favor of "right" behavior is justified. If you have given them what people call a moral compass (I have problems with the idea of morality, but that is neither here nor there for the purposes of you question), if you have taught them the concept of equity, of justice--then they will find their way to right behavior, even if not right away. Indoctrination robs the victims of choice and the ability to think for themselves.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 12:54 pm
@coluber2001,
When it comes to Star Wars and other science fiction universes? Yes. Indoctrinate them early. Early and often.
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rosborne979
 
  7  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 01:08 pm
@coluber2001,
I try to indoctrinate my daughter in the art of critical and skeptical thinking, without becoming cynical.

My hope is that she eventually makes her own choices (whatever they are) based on thoughtful consideration rather than knee-jerk reaction or peer pressure or fake news or blind desire or fear.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 01:39 pm
I was sort of indoctinated by my parents. Hah! my dad was involved with the Fatima Rosary Crusade, worked on a film with the irish priest who started that, Fr Patrick Peyton, who came to our church and said the rosary for him after he died. I've no rancor now about that. People who know me at a2k are aware I'm an atheist, but I tend to understand these experiences from various sides.

What did skin my fleece is that when we moved back to California, my cousins' family signed me up for a certain catholic girls' academy, where they went; well meaning of course. This was in the years when the Immaculate Heart nuns became famous across the US for their rebellion, and my school nuns were some of the most narrow minded orders in the US. Much aggravation ensued, re me being told I had a vocation to join their order.

My ever so catholic parents arranged that I could go on a trip with my dad and three of his cohorts/friends to make an industrial film. I never looked back: I definitely liked men, such interesting talk, almost a whole world different than my mother's and aunt's conversations. Neither of them were stupid women, just not very investigative.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 06:38 pm
@ossobucotemp,
I was indoctrinated into the NRA at quite a young age. I learnt that the majority of the present day members (since about the Goldwater years) are elfish assholes. I quit as one of their pompous assed minions when my dad died. (my pop was a really careful sport hunter and believed that the NR was only temporarily being overrun with gun Nazis). I still hunt and keep guns for protection but I dont need no goddam quack quack quack lectures and proselytizing about "us v them" and the second amendment.
Most NRA types today (at least the ones I know that are still active members) hve guns as phallic substitutes.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 06:56 pm
@rosborne979,
Eventually they do, rosborne! My daughter went to a catholic school, not because we're religious, it was very convenient for us - close to the house and small classes. By 5th grade she started to question the teachers about religion and didn't buy their explanations. That's when I knew she's outgrown their explanations and could form her own opinion about it - you only can do that when you know the subject!

They make their own choices pretty early on - not always what you want for them or have envisioned what they should do or become, but if they're determined enough and can pull through, then you've done your job! Smile
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edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2017 07:05 pm
I didn't try to teach my kids what to believe. If it came up I gave an honest answer, but told them to decide the issues for themselves. I did try to show by example.

(We never cussed around them but they all talk like sailors.)
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D45ist
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 04:42 pm
@coluber2001,
Teaching your child your beliefs is your job as a parent. Without that they are parentless....and characterless.
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Thomas33
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 04:56 pm
Opposing all indoctrination would include opposing all television, and the very notion of university and careers. Militarism is also indoctrination, as is nationalism and finance. Worse still, finance and careers require communication, and communication in itself is indoctrination.

Obviously, not all communication can be opposed, but what is the compromise?
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 05:01 pm
My father would now be 111 and mother 116. They were so different, so different. I learned from both of them, lucky child though complicated.
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 10:21 pm
Some of these responses are starting to scare me a little bit.
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2017 10:55 pm
Or, at the very least, disappoint me.
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Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 02:00 pm
@coluber2001,
Well, you will likely be competing with the local popular culture's beliefs, that often are more accepted than one's parent's beliefs. Example: It is not rare to find older children that believe that Jesus was Christian. Or, there are immigrants from South America that belive that Germany won WWII.

Also, there are many promulgated beliefs, based on reasons that wouldn't be obvious, such as prejudices against one group or another, just because the old line folks believe a less homogenous demographic will negatively effect their real estate values. Or, their children will be competing with better students in sports, or academics. Many beliefs correlate to preferences, based on wanting to maintain a "statud quo." Did you ever wonder how the "solid Democratic South" became Republican when desegregation arrived there?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 02:10 pm
@coluber2001,
Every parent, since the beginning of humanity, has indoctrinated their children. We pass on our values, and the values of our culture, on to our children. If we didn't, our children wouldn't be able to have productive lives.

Imagine if your children, with their current beliefs and values, were transported into ancient Sparta, or Egypt under the Pharoah, or Iran... they would be completely out of sync with their society and unable to function.

All people in modern culture indoctrinate our children with ideas about equality, independence, liberty. Our shared beliefs about love, and sex, and family, and duty, and freedom... these aren't things we were born with. We believe that the values we are passing on to our children represent universal values... but these aren't universal values. They are values that are specific culture and time.

The only reason we believe that our values (that we are indoctrinating our children to follow) are universal values is because we were well indoctrinated by our parents.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 02:11 pm
@coluber2001,
Quote:
Is it ever a good idea to indoctrinate children?
There is a difference from indoctrinating someone into your religious belief and teaching someone your religious belief. I wanted to point out that there is a difference, because of how you are asking the question.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 02:28 pm
In modern American society, we indoctrinate our kids that a woman is never obligated to have sex... ever. This is something that we all agree about and is a belief that is necessary for productive life in modern society.

Pre-colonial Native Americans didn't have this value. Nor did Ancient Romans, nor Victorian England or many other cultures. It certainly isn't a universal value.

But... does any modern American or European reading this not think that we should indoctrinate our children to believe this?
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 02:33 pm
@Real Music,
Quote:
There is a difference from indoctrinating someone into your religious belief and teaching someone your religious belief. I wanted to point out that there is a difference, because of how you are asking the question.


This is the biggest pile of soul-destroying **** I've ever heard of in my life.
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 02:54 pm
@coluber2001,
You are essentially telling the reader how you want them to answer your question, by strategically using the loaded word "indoctrinate"
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2017 03:02 pm
@Real Music,
Teaching children in the family home (and only that) is not the same as explaining buddhism at a party at whatever place, whatever year.
 

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