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2000 Reservists Resisting "Back Door Draft"

 
 
Harper
 
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2004 06:06 am
2000 resist.

Former G.I.'s, Ordered to War, Fight Not to Go
By MONICA DAVEY

Published: November 16, 2004

The Army has encountered resistance from more than 2,000 former soldiers it has ordered back to military work, complicating its efforts to fill gaps in the regular troops.

Many of these former soldiers - some of whom say they have not trained, held a gun, worn a uniform or even gone for a jog in years - object to being sent to Iraq and Afghanistan now, after they thought they were through with life on active duty.

They are seeking exemptions, filing court cases or simply failing to report for duty, moves that will be watched closely by approximately 110,000 other members of the Individual Ready Reserve, a corps of soldiers who are no longer on active duty but still are eligible for call-up.

In the last few months, the Army has sent notices to more than 4,000 former soldiers informing them that they must return to active duty, but more than 1,800 of them have already requested exemptions or delays, many of which are still being considered.

And, of about 2,500 who were due to arrive on military bases for refresher training by Nov. 7, 733 had not shown up.

Army officials say the call-up is proceeding at rates they anticipated, and they are trying to fill needed jobs with former soldiers as they did in the Persian Gulf war of 1991.

Still, the resistance puts further strain on a military that has summoned reserve troops in numbers not seen since World War II and forced thousands of soldiers in Iraq to postpone their departures when their enlistment obligations ended.

Tensions are flaring between the Army and some of its veterans, who say they are surprised and confused about their obligations and unsure where to turn.

"I consider myself a civilian," said Rick Howell, a major from Tuscaloosa, Ala., who said he thought he had left the Army behind in 1997 after more than a decade flying helicopters. "I've done my time. I've got a brand new baby and a wife, and I haven't touched the controls of an aircraft in seven years. I'm 47 years old. How could they be calling me? How could they even want me?"

Some former soldiers acknowledge that the Army has every right to call them back, but argue that their personal circumstances - illness, single parenthood, financial woes - make going overseas impossible now.

Others say they do not believe they are eligible to be returned to active duty because, they contend, they already finished the obligations they signed up for when they joined the military. A handful of such former soldiers, scattered across the country, have filed lawsuits making that claim in federal courts.

These former soldiers are not among the part-time soldiers - reservists and National Guard members - who receive paychecks and train on weekends, and who have been called up in large numbers over the last three years.

Instead, these are members of the Individual Ready Reserve, a pool of former soldiers seldom ordered back to work. Ordinarily, these former soldiers do not get military pay, nor do they train. They receive points toward a military retirement and an address form to update once a year.

When soldiers enlist, they typically agree to an eight-year commitment to the Army but often are allowed to end active duty sooner. Some of them join the Reserves or National Guard to complete their commitment; others finish their time in the Individual Ready Reserve.

For officers, the commitment does not expire unless they formally resign their commissions in writing, a detail some insist they did not know and were not told when they signed their contracts, although Army officials strongly dispute that.

Lt. Col. Pamela Hart, a spokeswoman for the Army, said people in the service are well aware of the provision. "We all know about it," Colonel Hart said.

She said problems with the call-ups of former soldiers have involved a relatively small number of people, are being worked out, and are hardly unique to this conflict. In the first gulf war, she said, more than 20,000 former soldiers were called up. With medical problems and no-shows, only about 14,400 were actually deployed, she said.

Most of the deployments in the first gulf war lasted 120 days, the Army said. The current call-ups are more likely to last a year.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,797 • Replies: 59
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2004 06:32 am
Shoulda' read the contracts for service obligation they signed.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2004 07:47 am
The poster "forgot" to post the ENTIRE ARTICLE....

an exerpt...."Of those seeking exemptions now, the Army is studying each person's case individually, Colonel Hart said, and has no set rule on what allows a person to avoid deployment. Army officials are still weighing more than half of the requests. So far, only 3 percent of requests for exemptions have been turned down, while 45 percent have been approved.

As for the former soldiers who failed to appear at bases by their assigned dates, the Army is trying to reach them, one by one, to discuss their circumstances, Colonel Hart said. In late September, some Army officials suggested that they would pursue harsher punishments - declaring people AWOL and possibly pursuing military charges - but the Army has since taken a quieter, more conciliatory approach.

"These are challenging times in their lives," Colonel Hart said, adding that some former soldiers who failed to report might have moved and not received the Army's notice. "We're contacting them as best as possible.""

This is not unusual nor unprecedented. Just because you are "called" does not mean you will go.
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2004 06:47 pm
woiyo wrote:
The poster "forgot" to post the ENTIRE ARTICLE....

quote]

I didn't forget to post anything, I linked it at the bottom which is what I always do when posting lenghty articles. Furthermore, am offended by your false allegation. Please post according to the guidelines of the board in th future.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2004 06:53 pm
As one who is totally opposed to the current debacle in Iraq, the current administration in Washington and everything else connected with the Bush extended family, it pains me to say this. But say it I must. I have scant sympathy for the reservists who consider a recall to duty a "backdoor draft." As Larry has already pointed out, they should have read the fine print on the contract. A reservist (and that includes the National Guard) is subject to recall. Period. If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If you don't like being in a war zone, don't join the armed forces.
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2004 08:42 pm
None signed on to be sent into an unwinnable Vietnam style quagmire. Things are bad when 47 year olds get drafted.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2004 09:37 pm
Harper wrote:
None signed on to be sent into an unwinnable Vietnam style quagmire. Things are bad when 47 year olds get drafted.


They signed on to go wherever the Hell they are ordered to go. You don't get to pick your assignments in the military.

They are not being drafted, they all volunteered to serve, and there are aplenty of 47 year old Reservists and Guardsmen who can still be so ordered.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 09:31 am
Harper wrote:
woiyo wrote:
The poster "forgot" to post the ENTIRE ARTICLE....

quote]

I didn't forget to post anything, I linked it at the bottom which is what I always do when posting lenghty articles. Furthermore, am offended by your false allegation. Please post according to the guidelines of the board in th future.


Yet, you keep a very critical point out of your argument.

Why is that???
0 Replies
 
dare2think
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:33 am
Why do Repubs get violently angry when someone mentions a draft. They deny deny deny, to protect bushs image. There is a backdoor draft going on. There may be a real draft, if bush keeps invading countries.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:38 am
I just don't agree with the idea that once you join the military, it's for life.

I mean, if you did your time, got out, and don't want to fight anymore, you shouldn't have to. I wouldn't....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:42 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
A reservist (and that includes the National Guard) is subject to recall. Period. If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If you don't like being in a war zone, don't join the armed forces.


Exactly. I was a conscript (and din't undergo the than long procedure of becoming a conscientious objector) and a reservist for more than 20 years.
I knew that being a soldier could mean to be killed in an action.
And I knew that they called reservists in the most unpleasant moments.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:46 am
Perhaps the one thing The Opposition does best is to demonstrate they haven't a clue.

It would appear they are only getting better at that. With freinds such as themselves, they have little need of foes to maintain the decline they've so successfully engineered.


Thanks, Democrats. Good job. Keep it up. Please. The Majority appreciates your efforts.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:48 am
Jesus, Timber, will you let the holier-than-thou attitude go for one freaking post?

Your side won. Congradulations. Is it really neccessary to be a jerk, though? Hardly magnaminous of you...

It's getting really old....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:50 am
dare2think wrote:
Why do Repubs get violently angry when someone mentions a draft. They deny deny deny, to protect bushs image.


We get angry because it was a Democrats idea that was applied to Bush to try and discredit his reelection. The Dems never admitted to the idea but pushed it as Bush's idea.

Quote:
There is a backdoor draft going on. There may be a real draft, if bush keeps invading countries.


It isn't a backdoor draft. The IRR is in your contract when you sign and the contract is explained before you sign. If you don't like the contract you don't have to join. These people knew about it and agreed to it because they didn't think it could happen.

There won't be a draft because the military doesn't want one. If there is a draft, it will be after Bush has left office and someone else wants one. We don't need that many people because enlistment is at a high as well as reenlistment.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:50 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I just don't agree with the idea that once you join the military, it's for life.

I mean, if you did your time, got out, and don't want to fight anymore, you shouldn't have to. I wouldn't....

Cycloptichorn

Its not "For Life", Cyc, a military obligation extends only so long as required by the contractual obligation. In that The US Military today is wholly volunteer, no one has any basis by which to protest the provisions of a contractual obligation freely undertaken. What one may prefer is immaterial to that to which one freely has obligated ones' self.

But then, that's perfectly illustrative of not having a clue.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:53 am
Quote:
Its not "For Life", Cyc, a military obligation extends only so long as required by the contractual obligation. In that The US Military today is wholly volunteer, no one has any basis by which to protest the provisions of a contractual obligation freely undertaken.


Ah, the 'fine print' argument. That one has been the death of many a libertine....

I think, given the intelligence of many of our recruits, there could be a strong case made that they didn't adequately understand the effects such a backdoor draft would have upon their lives at age 35, when they have 2 kids and a mortgage, when they sign up for the army at 18 or 19....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:57 am
I'm gonna ride the middle on this one. Though I don't like the idea of calling people back after they've served, or extending their deployments, I have to concede that soldiers know about this commitment when they sign the contract. In fact, it was this, along with many other factors that prevented me from signing up out of high school. I like to think that I'm no brighter than the next guy and so anyone who chooses the armed forces is aware of what they're sacrificing. My hunch is, though, that buyers remorse is setting in for soldiers being back doored.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:58 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ah, the 'fine print' argument. That one has been the death of many a libertine....

I think, given the intelligence of many of our recruits, there could be a strong case made that they didn't adequately understand the effects such a backdoor draft would have upon their lives at age 35, when they have 2 kids and a mortgage, when they sign up for the army at 18 or 19....

Cycloptichorn


Straw man. The education level of todays recruits is the highest in history, Cyc. So, across the board, are their test scores.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 12:05 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Perhaps the one thing The Opposition does best is to demonstrate they haven't a clue.

It would appear they are only getting better at that. With freinds such as themselves, they have little need of foes to maintain the decline they've so successfully engineered.


Thanks, Democrats. Good job. Keep it up. Please. The Majority appreciates your efforts.


Still driving down that street, eh Timber?
0 Replies
 
dare2think
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 12:12 pm
It is not for life, when you get out you are out, Do you people think the military owns these people for the rest of their life? When you serve your term you are out, discharged.
0 Replies
 
 

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