Anti-Muslim Dutch politicians in hiding after death threats

herberts wrote:

Ah huh! So you're part of that middle class Dutch society whose escaping in their droves from the joys of Holland's multicultural madness... ?

No, I'm a new generation of "political refugee"... ;-)

I was a kid in the 70s; I liked Holland fine in the 80s.

Then came the years of the economic boom, the late 90s, when everyone seemed to suddenly only talk stocks, shares, house prices, computers and cellphones. And the government gave tax cuts, especially for the rich, and privatised and liberalised. And all the while everyone just became more intolerant and complained ever louder about those asylum-seekers sponging off their money, and how Holland couldnt cope with any more immigrants. While the number of homeless surged.

Then came a time that made those years of spoiled egos in turn seem idyllic. The Fortuyn revolution. One after another, politicians, columnists and TV hosts decided that the thing to do was to compete with each other in how boorish, brutal, egoistic, resentful and disrespectful one could be, preferably against those of different race or religion, preferable against those who were already at the bottom of the food chain, Moroccans and Muslims. Goatf*ckers! Theo van Gogh called them, and he was cheered on for being "blunt and honest".

And just when you held your head and went, WTF happened to my country with all these assh*les taking over, they started getting killed. Fortuyn was shot. Van Gogh had his throat slit. And in response the media jumped on every loudmouthed Muslim extremist they could find, and there were enough of those to go around to oblige with verbal aggro as well.

It's not a fun place to be anymore. My then-girlfriend moved to Holland to be with me on new years eve 2001/2002. It was the very worst possible time to come. She had always wanted to live in Holland, that open-minded, tolerant, liberal country! Well, she came there and everyone turned nasty. As a foreigner (be it a white one), she hardly stood a chance. You can re-read on Expatica how expats experience post-Fortuyn Holland. A place full of suspicious, resentful, unpleasant whites, as well as angry or fearful minorities.

Although the guy who murdered Van Gogh and his mates deserve to go to hell, in general my sympathy is with the minorities. Though the worst of the Muslims (the murderer of Van Gogh) did something worse than any Fortuynist has done, its the latter's egoism and hostility, and that of the right-wing VVD-type opportunists, that leave the greater mark on daily life. There's simply more of 'em.

Mind you, I dont mind the plain-spoken Dutch guy who's seen his working-class neighbourhood change through immigration and is fed up; it's easy to understand how he feels. I mind all those (upper) middle-class whites who've have it better than ever and definitely better than their (grand)parents ever did, and yet cant stop complaining about how terrible it all is, what with how those evil asylum-seekers are feeding off our poor, vulnerable economy. Who live, by the two or three, in apartments that used to house families of five, but lament that "Holland is full".

My ex-gf went back to America just last month. She had the misfortune to have been in Holland in its worst and most unpleasant time in recent history.

Now I didnt really "flee" Holland, of course. I simply applied for this job here because my old job was on the line (budget cuts...) and this one was pretty damn cool, the kind I had always wanted. But my decision to take it and leave home was definitely made easier by the mess that not just Muslim extremists, but also and in particular the Fortuyn/Verdonk-types have made it.

Yek. Here's to better times. May the sane and kind win out soon again. As, who knows, perhaps they've started to.

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Wow. That was one rant I've apparently been waiting to get out of my system. There you go, Herberts - there's how it feels for someone like me. And there's loads of us too.

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Have you ever considered that those white, privileged, middle class Dutch folk had every damned right to stand on their ancestral soil and protest against the fact that their homeland suburbs were becoming increasingly awash with foreign identities from poorly-civilised, basket-case Third World nations where Islamic hysteria and medieval social values are the order of the day... ?

My best friend is a Dutch migrant to Australia - and she remembers well how it was that as she and her fellow-migrants were on trains going towards the port of embarkation - whole train-loads of swathy Third Worlders from the Islam cess-pits of Turkey and North Africa were headed in the opposite direction as more immigrant fodder for the nation's burgeoning ghettoes.

Your mini-biography here is unsurprisingly replete with all the 'right' bleeding-heart liberal condemnation for capitalist success and privilege - while at the same time demonstrating a typical Lefty's ideological penchant for hand-wringing angst and bewailing sympathy for the most criminally active and socially delinquent of all the immigrant communities - namely, the Muslims.

You're a walking, talking leftwing-liberal cliché, nimh. My congratulations to your mentors for having had the skill to do such a very thorough job of scrubbing your conscience of any such notion that your top priorities and your preeminant loyalties should rest with your own people and with your own homeland nationhood.

You're a typically jaundiced 'victimhood' proponent whose rose-coloured glasses, and PC ethics, and personal psychopathology has you rooting and barracking for everyone except your own countrymen and your own cultural sovereignty.

And it's pure, unadulterated, poetic justice that someone near to you who obviously shares your social-Marxist views - has had to flee the country whose self-same liberal politics of four decades ago has resulted in the total f*ck up of an erstwhile peaceful and unified nation which now is forever obliged to live cheek-by-jowl with an insoluble and unassimilable growing Islamic community.

And right on cue - it's everyone else's fault but the naive fools who politically engineered this disaster in the first place.

It's the fault of those bloody 'Herberts' who refuse go quietly into the night - but instead, fulminate and rant their racist filth... And it's also the fault of those damned conservative capitalists who drive past the ghettoes in their gleaming stretch-limousines with the heavily-tinted windows carefully wound up against the possibility of any visual pollution offending the eye...

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At least, my morming starts with a really good laugh - thanks herbets!

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NiMH...

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And there's loads of us too.

Brrrrrrrr.... *shiver*..... don't scare me like that - I have to sleep nights.

Whatever you do - don't even think of emigrating to Australia... we've got enough white ants here as it is! Laughing

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/termites.jpg

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Walter...

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At least, my morning starts with a really good laugh - thanks herbert!

Huh... ?

'... a really good laugh'... ?! I've never been so insulted in my life! I'm a serious social commentator here, and I'll have you know that Millions hang upon my every word with breathless devotion to my wise counsel and rare commonsense. Shocked

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I too would like to thank Herberts for the incisive commentary and belly laughs

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While you're sitting there in the semi-darkness next to a burning candle in your fashionable garret in downtown Brussels, drinking chardonnay and nibbling on crackers with Chevagne cheese -

and Mr Nimh replied

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I'm in Budapest actually ...

well it began with a B...quite near

(Brussels is in Belgium btw)

herberts wrote:

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Apparently this 1956 revolutionary exodus had the effect of leaving behind in the Mother Country a residual population that is mostly composed of far-left, morally-elite, angst-filled, handwringing, guilt-ridden, leftwing-liberal socialist wankers.

Apparently.

How far is it from your crocodile infested swamp to Budapest?

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I'm a serious social commentator here,

(any references for that apart from your own opinion?)

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..and I'll have you know that Millions hang upon my every word with breathless devotion to my wise counsel and rare commonsense.

I can certainly agree your commonsense is indeed rare, not sure about the wise counsel though.

........................................................................

nimh thanks for the potted biography, at least I know where you are coming from (and going to) so to speak.

Regarding your point Herberts about me nimh and paaskyman betraying our own societies, it was Saint Margaret Luxuriant of Thatch (may peace and blessings be upon her) who said

"there is no such thing as society, only individuals and families"

what do you mean betraying societies? I no longer give a flying **** about it, just like her.

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herberts wrote:

My best friend is a Dutch migrant to Australia

I'm glad she found a place that apparently better suits her preferences. Perhaps both she and we are better off that way.

herberts wrote:

You're a walking, talking leftwing-liberal cliché, nimh.

Oy! Don't call me a liberal. I'm too much of a leftie to be a liberal.

herberts wrote:

My congratulations to your mentors for having had the skill to do such a very thorough job of scrubbing your conscience of any such notion that your top priorities and your preeminant loyalties should rest with your own people and with your own homeland nationhood.

I'll pass on your congratulations. It's true: the notion that my "preeminent loyalty" should be with "homeland nationhood" - with "my own people", so to say, that apparently should include my three Dutch neighbours in Utrecht but not my Indonesian and Moroccan neighbours (though the Indonesian guy was by far the nicest) - no, that kind of thing has completely passed me by.

Then again, we've had all kinds of bother with this "preeminent loyalties to homeland nationhood" logic in Europe, arguably far more than with anything the immigrants brought - the wars in Yugoslavia alone cost more lives than any immigrant-related trouble.

herberts wrote:

And it's pure, unadulterated, poetic justice that someone near to you who obviously shares your social-Marxist views

Nah, she's American. They dont do Marxism in America..

herberts wrote:

It's the fault of those bloody 'Herberts' who refuse go quietly into the night - but instead, fulminate and rant their racist filth... And it's also the fault of those damned conservative capitalists who drive past the ghettoes in their gleaming stretch-limousines with the heavily-tinted windows carefully wound up against the possibility of any visual pollution offending the eye...

I'm glad to hear your loyalties appear to indeed be where I had suspected; not with the working-class whites who actually themselves lived and partly still live in the neighbourhoods where all the Moroccans and Turks came to, but with the full-fed upper middle class suburbians who sit in their pre-fab garden in their white commuter towns whining about how those Muslim bastards in the overpopulated inner cities are 'taking over the country'.

OK. Thats enough of that Razz

. It was fun, but my next posts will see a return to more dispassionate argument again ;-)

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herberts wrote:

Paaskynen... You remind me of the Lefties in France of 30 - 40 years ago who would shout down as a 'racist!' and a 'bigot!' anyone who dared to venture the quiet opinion that one day in their own lifetime they would witness their Muslim population grow into a second nation living alongside them within their own national borders.

So now you are an expert on France in the 60's and 70's too. Do you speak French at all?

herberts wrote:

And one can only imagine with what utter incredulity and abusive contempt those leftwing trendies of the '60's would have reserved for anyone venturing the opinion that by the year 2004 a full 50% of France's incarcerated criminals would be of the Islamic faith. France is nothing less than a barometer of what awaits other Western nations for having opened up immigration to the Islamic hordes.

Do you have a source for that information?

herberts wrote:

I'm surprised at your naive complacency towards the prospect of social damage being wreaked upon your Finnish homeland by Islamic immigration. Whether it's Sweden or Denmark or Norway - the news is uniformly the same in featuring the same stories about Muslim youths raping the local white girls as Western 'sluts' - and Muslim high unemployment rates and their gross over-representation in the prisons system.

Sorry, Mr Herberts I live in Finland, but I do not see what you describe here. Gosh, I must be blind, or maybe it is a nationwide conspiracy to hide the muslem crime wave washing over Finland. Confused

herberts wrote:

If you're yet another Western trendy who thinks it shows moral sophistication and political maturity to help nurture and grow an Islamic society in your own national homeland then good luck to you.
How very cheaply and easily is this generation giving away its national birthright.

Seriously, Mr Herberts, I do not see why I should bother responding further to you. You do not address the arguments refuting your views but resort merely to tendentious mud slinging not hindered by any actual knowledge of the matter (because of the very biased sources that you employ). You may fulminate against what you see as political correctness (another would call it polite debate), but being plain rude does not lend any credulity to your stance, quite the contrary, it is a clear sign of an insecure, weak intellect who with ad hominem attacks and strong language seeks to drown out the voice of reason that he so fears.

Have a good life.

Rgrds,
P.S. Paaskynen

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Nicely said, Paasky.

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None so blind as they who will not see.

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9 word post from herberts? not possible surely?

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9 words... ?

Count up the number of words in the 7 posts I've had on this board which have gone unanswered for several days now. It has become quite apparent that this is one of those boards which is far more in the nature of being an emotional support group and mutual therapy clinic than it has any realistic claim to being a forum for debate.

Voice perfectly legitimate viewpoints which dare to express something other than politically correct cant and leftwing cliches and you can expect the administration to either lock down the thread or post up some one-liner about what a racist bastard you are... where's the tolerance for differing opinions in that... ?

It's a case of either fit-the-mould as a leftwinger - or expect to get shut down or insulted by the administration... absolutely not a clue about just how much of a bear-pit and a Roman gladiatorial arena a real debating site looks like.

nimh gave me a run for my money but ultimately proved to be a committed and ideologically-indentured foot-soldier for far leftwing social policies and causes.

I could almost hear the Marseilles being played in the background as I read his tearful and hand-wringing messages about the poor, misunderstood, victimised Third World immigrants to the Netherlands. Eeeeeeeeyuk! Pur-leeeez! Spare me! Laughing

I'll make a prediction, Steve. Come back in 20-years and you'll all be sounding like me. It just needs a little more time for the rose-coloured glasses to no longer be effective in disguising the realities which have arrived with having an alien culture pumped into Western nations like a toxic sludge from pre-medieval Islamic societies.

Need more bombs to go off in your neighbourhood to awaken you from your social-Marxist ideological complacency.. ? Need more anti-vilification laws to erode your democratic freedoms... ? Need a couple more mosques to be built in your neighbourhood... ?

Just don't complain when the time arrives that you find yourself being out-voted by intransigent foreigners encamped as alien colonialists in your own homeland backyard.

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herberts wrote:

I'll make a prediction, Steve. Come back in 20-years and you'll all be sounding like me.

you might be right. or wrong. will you be there?

will I?

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12 word post from Steve (as 41oo) ? Typical.

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herberts wrote:

Voice perfectly legitimate viewpoints which dare to express something other than politically correct cant and leftwing cliches and you can expect the administration to either lock down the thread or post up some one-liner about what a racist bastard you are...

The A2K administration posted a one-liner about what a racist bastard you are? Really? Where?

herberts wrote:

It's a case of either fit-the-mould as a leftwinger - or expect to get shut down or insulted by the administration... absolutely not a clue about just how much of a bear-pit and a Roman gladiatorial arena a real debating site looks like.

Yes, no, a bear-pit is not what we would like A2K to be like (any more than it already is).

herberts wrote:

nimh gave me a run for my money

Well, it was fun for a bit ... kind of relaxing. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

herberts wrote:

I could almost hear the Marseilles being played in the background as I read his tearful and hand-wringing messages about the poor, misunderstood, victimised Third World immigrants to the Netherlands.

You sure you dont mean the Internationale?

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Dagmaraka...

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wow. that's the most twisted and hatefull stuff i've read in a long while. one certainly does not get bored here on a2k.

I repeat...

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I'll make a prediction, Steve. Come back in 20-years and you'll all be sounding like me. It just needs a little more time for the rose-coloured glasses to no longer be effective in disguising the realities which have arrived with having an alien culture pumped into Western nations like a toxic sludge from pre-medieval Islamic societies.

nimh - as you obviously come from the very same political gene pool which 40-years ago so stupidly thought it would be a cute and socially 'enlightened' policy to flood Western societies with pre-medieval Islam - it's not surprising that today we find your ideological ilk walking around with egg on their face trying to hawk the fiction that all's well in the ghettoes and isn't multiculturalism just so bloody marvellous.

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Well, you certainly wont hear me say that "all's well in the ghettoes", Herberts - I've been saying quite the opposite, actually.

Meanwhile, where did the A2K administration post one-liners about what a racist bastard you are?

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nimh wrote:

herberts wrote:
I could almost hear the Marseilles being played in the background as I read his tearful and hand-wringing messages about the poor, misunderstood, victimised Third World immigrants to the Netherlands.

You sure you dont mean the Internationale?

No he meant the Marseilles probably supporting les Bleus at the Stade de France yesterday. And this morning the Indians have beaten England at cricket. The end of civilisation as we know it.

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Isn't Dagmaraka an administrator? If not I apologise to the administration here. Lately it's been hard keeping up with all the various personalities involved in my persecution at forum sites which are little more than leftwing-liberal insect colonies.

Steve... nimh... paaskynen.... Dagmaraka... all of you are united in the neurotic belief that you have a moral duty to advocate for and champion the cause of negating the cultural sovereignty and traditional identity of your own homeland societies in the interest of accommodating a never-ending flood of immigrants and refugees from failed Third World societies.

Yours is an attitude of child-like undergraduate resentment for those in the West who are priviliged and comfortable and cashed-up in a world which is groaning with a seething excess of poverty and disease and Third World disadvantage.

The First World affluent circumstances found in Western societies did not just happen at the behest of Divine decree. These have arrived as the result of centuries of hard-fought struggle at the expense of many good souls who sacrificed themselves to give us the priviliged legacy we enjoy today.

I don't for one moment believe Western governments owe a damned thing to the peoples of Africa -- or to any other collection of sh*thouse backwater nations found throughout the Middle East or Asia.

Least of all should Western nations believe they have a moral obligation to screw up the demographics and the national identity and unity of their own societies through immigration and refugees programmes which accept interminable streams of medieval mentalities whose loyalty for the Islamic religion ensures a hostile and belligerent colonial presence forever bleating 'victimhood' and 'racism' for being asked to assimilate.

That's my rant for today. I await with breathless anticipation your one-line 'loaded' response, Steve... Very Happy

And incidentally Steve, I haven't given a flying fluk about British sport ever since the PC nazis banned it from being 'English' - and turned it into an idealistic Socialist Utopian Wet-Dream Idealof multicultural/ multi-racial/ polyglot/cosmopolitan 'One-World' International Socialist Utopian Wet-Dream.

There's nothing more of an hilarious farce than to switch on the tele to watch a game of so-called 'British soccer' - only to find that both 'English' teams have at least half a dozen players with unpronounceable foreign surnames stitched across their shirts - and as if this were not absurd enough - even the coaches are similarly imported foreigners from Utrecht or Stockholm or wherever...

And then we have the bizarre spectacle in which we witness visiting cricketers being mobbed and lionised by seething packs of hysterical young fans who are the grandchildren of Pakistani, Indian and West Indian immigrants.... Hello... ?

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Anti-Muslim Dutch politicians in hiding after death threats

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