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The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 06:30 am
Hmmmmm...he's not being frozen out by the media?


Pollies release media stuff all the time that isn't picked up...


Still, one hopes Kimmy could get a press guernsey...

Sigh!!!!!!!!!
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 06:39 am
I don't know why the media would do that, Deb. God knows, they love a good conflict! I suspect it might be that he needs to offer something new to the mix, something a bit more proactive, instead of just responding to everything that Howard proposes. Right now, though, he does appear to be missing in action. Sad
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 07:09 am
True enough. The Murdoch press would probably be listening to orders and could be keeping him out - they did it to Simon Crean. But if that's so then the ALP should be working out ways of getting the word out by other means. I hope Kym doesn't do a John Kerry with the Swiftboats. I hope he isn't assuming that the pure bastardry in the IR legislation will be an argument all by itself. The public are amenable to the spin being put out by Howard so Labor will need to get out there as the ACTU has done and actually hammer home why this legislation is viciously bad and what will be done about it by a Labor government.
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 05:30 pm
I saw some press saying the Big K was going up in the approval ratings because of IR - so he's not being completely frozen out.

My SO's reaction to one of those $20 million dollar IR ads ( the one that says you can't be sacked for refusing to negotiate an AWA ):

Yeah, but that only holds for jobs currently held - they can refuse to employ you if you won't accept an AWA [I'm guessing a promotion would mean an AWA as well]. And you can't get JobStart (a wages subsidy package) unless the job is under an AWA.

Can't wait to see what she says about the next one we see (after we finish choking).

Man those doctors are spinning....
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 06:22 pm
I feel dizzy from all the spin.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 02:30 am
goodfielder wrote:
True enough. The Murdoch press would probably be listening to orders and could be keeping him out - they did it to Simon Crean.


I'm not sure that's happening, gf. Some of the most damning (& informative) stuff I've posted here has been from the Australian. Right now I think Kim needs to send a clear, strong message. For example:

The ALP has always been true protector of working Australians & remains committed.

We unequivocally reject the Howard government's IR position!

Even if (due to controlling both houses) the Libs get away with it in the short term, let it be understood that Labor will undo the whole lot, if re-elected. ...The arbitration Commission, collective bargaining, the right to reject a woeful job "offer" without losing your Centre link entitlements!

Spell it out!

I reckon that would get people sitting up! Very Happy
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 02:38 am
hingehead wrote:
My SO's reaction to one of those $20 million dollar IR ads ( the one that says you can't be sacked for refusing to negotiate an AWA ):

Yeah, but that only holds for jobs currently held - they can refuse to employ you if you won't accept an AWA [I'm guessing a promotion would mean an AWA as well]. And you can't get JobStart (a wages subsidy package) unless the job is under an AWA.


I think this is right, hinge, but if you're unemployed & reject a "legitimate offer of work" (i.e. a job with reduced pay & conditions to "award" workers in the same job - which is perfectly legitimate under the plan) then Centrelink can cut your entitlements because you're not serious about gaining employment! How's that? Catch 22!
Shocked
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 03:08 am
http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5060542,00.jpg
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 04:28 am
An excellent article (if you're interested in these things) which sets the record straight from the other (non-economic rationalist) side. Lots of facts & figures which debunk Howard's often repeated claims of "productivity gains" resulting from his IR proposals. It's by good old Ken Davidson from the AGE.:

IR changes put profit before productivity
October 13, 2005/the AGE

The new workplace regime will retard, not boost the economy,
warns Kenneth Davidson.


There is about as much evidence that the Government's proposed industrial relations changes will promote productivity growth as there was for the claim that there was evidence that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction which justified the illegal invasion of Iraq. ... <cont>

http://www.theage.com.au/news/kenneth-davidson/ir-changes-put-profit-before-productivity/2005/10/12/1128796585440.html?oneclick=true[size=7][/size]
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 04:46 am
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/10/13/moir_gallery__470x260.jpg
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 01:05 am
There's got to be a kill-joy at every ripper, over-the-top party, doesn't there! Spoiling all the fun! Sheesh!Laughing

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/10/14/1510saturdaycartoon_gallery__470x287.jpg
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 01:12 am
Even "men of god" are spoiling the fun!!! Surprised :

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5061751,00.jpg
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 01:24 am
ANOTHER one spoils the fun!!!

But, good grief, check this out! Shocked:

Terror laws put on the net
By Michelle Grattan and Brendan Nicholson
October 15, 2005/the AGE




They can be confined to specified premises between set hours, stopped from possessing certain articles, prohibited from associating with specified individuals, and required to wear an electronic tracking device.

The legislation contains a qualified right to kill in certain circumstances when taking a person into preventive detention or detaining them.

It specifies that a police officer must not do anything to cause the death of, or serious harm to, the person except where it is necessary to protect life or safety of others, including the officer, and the person can not be apprehended in any other way.



To the fury of the Federal Government, the Labor Chief Minister of the ACT, Jon Stanhope, posted the confidential draft legislation on his website www.chiefminister.act.gov.au, yesterday, after inviting feedback from Canberra Muslims.

Mr Stanhope said later his office had received a call from the federal Attorney-General's Department demanding "that I remove the documents from public view". The secretary of the Prime Minister's department, Peter Shergold, rang the head of Mr Stanhope's department expressing the Howard Government's displeasure.

"I have no intention of removing the draft legislation," Mr Stanhope said. "It is appalling that the Howard Government apparently believes that the people of Australia have no right to see this draft legislation, or to have any input whatsoever into its formulation."

The president of the Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission, John von Doussa, yesterday joined attacks on the Government's intention to confine to a week a Senate inquiry on the legislation.

The Opposition says this would mean only a day would be available because estimates hearings will also be on, which Prime Minister John Howard denied. Mr Howard also pointed out that Labor premiers had agreed to the legislation.


Under the legislation, control orders can be sought from a court where it would assist in preventing a terrorist act or the person has trained with a terrorist organisation.

People under them can also be prohibited from going to specified places, stopped leaving Australia and forced to report in at specified times. They could be required to be photographed and fingerprinted.

A person faces life imprisonment for financing a terrorist, even if done recklessly, not intentionally. A spokeswoman for Attorney-General Philip Ruddock said that the bill was still "a work in progress".



http://www.theage.com.au/news/war-on-terror/terror-laws-leaked-to-net/2005/10/14/1128796710120.html?oneclick=true
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 01:35 am
Last Update: Saturday, October 15, 2005. 4:31pm (AEST)

Howard attacks Stanhope over anti-terrorism bill leak

The Prime Minister has described the ACT Chief Minister's decision to place the draft anti-terrorism laws on the Internet as irresponsible.

Jon Stanhope is refusing a Federal Government request to remove the confidential draft of the bill from his website.


The bill is expected to go before Parliament in a fortnight.

John Howard says governments should be able to deal with issues in confidence, no matter what their political stance.

He says Mr Stanhope's action is disappointing.

"That legislation was given in confidence," he said.

"Let me say in relation to this issue that I can assure the people of Australia that the legislation finally presented to the Parliament will reflect the agreement that was reached by me with all the state premiers and chief ministers, no more, no less."

Civil liberties

Meanwhile, a civil libertarian says the Federal Government's draft anti-terrorism laws are more draconian than he previously thought.

The Australian Council for Civil Liberties president, Terry O'Gorman, says he supports the decision by Mr Stanhope to post a draft of the bill on his website.

Mr O'Gorman says he is particularly worried judges who are not ordinary members of a court will be able to issue control orders and preventative detention orders, making it difficult for lawyers to challenge the orders.

"A judge will be acting in his personal capacity and not as a member of a court and that's an extraordinarily novel provision," he said.

"But it also prevents a lawyer who's acting for a person who's been the subject of a control order or a preventative detention order from getting his hands on the evidence that was used to make the order."

Mr O'Gorman also says under the proposed laws a person would commit an offence if they brought the sovereign into hatred or contempt.

He says even though there is a defence if it is done in good faith, the laws would have a chilling effect on free speech.

"The royal family in the view of many are a severely dysfunctional unit. Under this provision, if you rubbish the royal family you can be charged with sedition because you've brought them into contempt," he said.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1483113.htm
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 01:55 am
I'm working my way through this legislation but looking at these references I have to wonder if I've suddenly been transported in time, not far, just back to Uncle Joe's Soviet Union.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 02:43 am
Yes, I know, gf. And it's becoming very hard to take. The nature of the changes, the incredibly short time allowed for the changes to be discussed & rubber stamped, then the knowledge that the legislation is going to go through anyway, with the Libs controlling both house of parliament. It's depressing. What the hell are they doing to our country? I can't quite believe this is actually happening.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 02:55 am
.... <deep sigh>

... but to continue... :


http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/10/16/golding_gallery__470x348.jpg
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 07:23 am
Deflating terror's bubble
Federal politics
By Michelle Grattan
October 16, 2005/the AGE


It was an exquisite prick of the hubris balloon. Less than 24 hours after the Howard Government insisted a Senate inquiry into its sweeping anti-terrorism legislation would be confined to a week - less in real parliamentary time - it was infuriated by the pre-emptive release of the draft bill.

.... It is outrageous that the Government wanted to leave so little time between the planned date of release and the passage of the legislation, which it intends to get through Parliament before Christmas.

That it has such scant regard for the processes of democratic discussion on a piece of legislation that tramples comprehensively on people's rights makes you worry about how it would use the law itself.

The breadth of what can be done under the proposals is extraordinary. And so is the potential for innocents, or semi-innocents, to be caught up in the net.

People over whom police obtain a control order - terror suspects or those who have trained with a terrorist organisation - can be detained for up to a year, effectively under house arrest.

That they can be forced to wear a tracking device is almost the least of it. They can be stopped from making phone calls, prevented from working, and told where to be when. Remember, these people have not been charged with an offence.


Despite the built-in judicial review (including the issuing of the order by a court), Kerr says: "We have moved an awfully long way to licensing the state control of the individual that we have condemned in totalitarian regimes."

John North, president of the Law Council of Australia, raises the risk that a government could use the legislation's provision for preventive detention of people without charge (two days under federal law, two weeks under complementary state law) as a precautionary device to sweep up people and minimise security dangers when, for example, there is a major conference attended by foreign leaders.


The preventive detention section codifies the circumstances in which police may shoot to kill. It says in part that a police officer may not do anything to kill or grievously injure a fleeing person unless the officer reasonably believes that it is necessary to do so "to protect life or to prevent serious injury" and there is no other way to stop the person.

The Greens and Democrats have jumped on this, with Bob Brown saying it would "allow a London-type wrongful death". The Government says the section simply reflects what is already in the Crimes Act. But critics say this draft does not make it clear that the risk posed by the fleeing person must be an imminent one, and Brown notes that the need for a warning has been qualified with the words "if practicable".

"The result is that a fleeing suspect may be shot where an officer has not been able to first call for surrender," Brown said yesterday. There is also the further point that the people being preventively detained are not people who are being arrested.


While most debate has been around the sections on control orders and preventive detention, other parts of the bill also raise concerns.

Take the section "financing a terrorist". A person commits an offence by intentionally giving funds to someone (directly or indirectly) and being "reckless as to whether the other person will use the funds to facilitate or engage in a terrorist act". The penalty for this? Life imprisonment. Surely an excessively long sentence.

The sedition section is drastic. A "seditious intention" includes urging someone to "attempt, otherwise than by lawful means, to procure a change to any matter established by law in the Commonwealth". Where would that leave illegal sit-ins?

It's also seditious to "promote feelings of ill will or hostility between different groups so as to threaten the peace, order and good government of the Commonwealth".
The Government stresses the sedition section is an updating of the present law and crimes must be linked to violence.

The offence outlawing the giving of assistance "by any means whatever" to an organisation or country against which the Australian Defence Force is fighting (penalty - seven years in prison) has a "good faith" let-out designed to cover political debate (as well as humanitarian assistance). But there's a lot of subjectivity involved.

Attorney-General Philip Ruddock yesterday elaborated: "There is no prospect of people being found guilty of offences in relation to participating in robust debate on political issues. But there is a concern that robust debate should not be seen as encouragement to people to carry out acts which will endanger other people's lives."

He said Australian troops' safety should not be put at risk by people who might say, "I don't think the Australian Government should be in Iraq, therefore you should attack our troops." Would the law, however, catch much-less-explicit statements? Ruddock yesterday could not think of a single example of a comment that might have come under the section relating to Australian troops.


The legislation's premature release will give, in particular, the Muslim community a chance to react. It was significant that Stanhope used the occasion of a speech at a mosque to announce he was making the draft public.

He invited Canberra Muslims to give their views, "in particular, the extent to which they believe these laws may lead to racial profiling".

"The onus should not be on ordinary, law-abiding people to prove that they are not a danger to the community, yet that seems to be the current focus. The question being asked of Australian Muslims is what they can do to assuage the fears of the rest of us. The focus ought to be what the rest of us can do to address the causes of disaffection."

......... It's easy for sceptics to argue that opponents of the anti-terrorism laws are exaggerating their potential misuse and downplaying all the judicial safeguards. This overlooks history and human nature. This Government's treatment of asylum seekers, and its patent disregard for the rights of David Hicks and Habib, do not encourage giving it the benefit of the doubt. There's not much reason to think Labor would be better. If the laws are there, the probability is they'll eventually be used to the hilt.

The imperative is to get the balances right when the legislation is passed. With the Government able to get its way in the Senate, it has the absolute whip hand. But at least, thanks to Stanhope, the cautionary voices now have a little better chance to be heard and more weight will be put on small-"l" liberals in the Coalition to act as watchdogs.

<complete article>
http://www.theage.com.au/news/michelle-grattan/michelle-grattan/2005/10/15/1128796745073.html
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 06:23 pm
That was a good read. Right on the money too. Oh just in case anyone thinks that the timing of the current Mercury '05 exercise is a bit dodgy - it isn't, it was scheduled a long time ago and has been in the planning since the last one.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 01:04 am
Could you expand on that a wee bit, gf? I'm not quite sure I fully understand what you're getting at. I'd like to know more.
0 Replies
 
 

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