The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

Awwww. I wanted that to become the next coming election thread.

The way it is now... I REALLY don't like the ending.

Hi Olga

I'm in - by the way did you know you're 2 a2k years old tomorrow?

OK, Adrian, I'll see what I can do!

How's that, Adrian?

Oh, good! We can continue to whinge, commiserate & plan our revenge!

Yep, hinge, I'm two tomorrow!

Book mark.

OK! So, first thing, get out there and join a local liberal party branch. Then once you're embedded, start registering "friends". What we want is to control the preselection. Come next election we want every liberal party candidate to be as much like Alexander Downer as we can POSSIBLY get.

Right?!?

The only other pressing issue is... No matter WHAT msolga says... Don't vote green next time... Especially not in the senate... :wink:

I posted this to the US election (for non-US folk), but I think it's just as appropriate here:

Kerry's man tells (Oz) PM: mind your manners
By Peter Hartcher in Washington
November 1, 2004

An adviser to the Democratic presidential challenger John Kerry has criticised John Howard for publicly wishing for victory for George Bush in this week's election.

The Prime Minister last week said of the US President: "I hope he wins."

A senior defence official in the Clinton administration and prospective senior official in a Kerry administration, Kurt Campbell, said this was "a little inappropriate". Dr Campbell told the Herald: "I remember when Australians thought there was too much playing of politics here, when the Bush Administration was talking about Australian politics.

"I would remind Australians that the same applies at home. Such comments about our politics are a little inappropriate."

In June, Mr Bush criticised the Labor leader, Mark Latham, for promising to withdraw Australian troops from Iraq by Christmas.

Dr Campbell's comments herald the likelihood that a Kerry administration, while still well-disposed toward Australia, would not be as intimate with the Howard Government.

"Obviously, a Kerry Administration wouldn't be as warm and cuddly with the Howard people as a matter of personal relationships," said a Democrat and political analyst at the Brookings Institution, Tom Mann. "But Kerry will bend over backwards to be conciliatory to coalition partners."

Dr Campbell added, however, that there was likely to be some initial anxiety, regardless of which man won: "If it's another Bush term. Australia's best friends in the Administration, the Secretary of State, Colin Powell, and his deputy, Rich Armitage, are unlikely to remain in place," said Dr Campbell, the head of security studies at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies. "So you are likely to have new players who will need educating or re-initiation into the high priesthood of the alliance."
Further, the Australian Ambassador to the US for the past five years, Michael Thawley, has advised the Government that he will resign to look for a job in the private sector in the first quarter of next year.

So the topmost officials in the daily conduct of the US alliance in Washington are set to change, on both sides of the relationship, regardless of who wins the election.

The two biggest joint ventures of the alliance, however, are expected to continue with only minor change.

First, the Free Trade Agreement, whose implementation has been delayed by US concerns, is likely to take effect from January 1 as planned, informed officials said.

Second, the next administration, whether under Mr Bush or Mr Kerry, is expected to ask US allies for fresh contributions to the occupation of Iraq.

Before the FTA can enter into force, its terms require the two governments to exchange letters attesting that enabling legislation has been faithfully enacted.

This exchange is supposed to occur at least 60 days before the agreement takes effect, a deadline which expired at the weekend. But Richard Mills, a spokesman for the US Trade Representative, said that this 60-day requirement could be varied with mutual consent: "In previous cases like Chile and Singapore, exchange occurred less than 60 days before entry into force, and we are continuing to discuss with Australia implementation measures."

Officials said Australia would need to amend the enabling legislation on technical points on the treatment of intellectual property before the US would agree to implement the FTA.

Also, talks were continuing on details of the pharmaceutical benefits scheme.

On the question of the contribution to Iraq, Australia's response, according to well-placed officials, would be to offer some flexibility in the components of the Australian deployment, but without substantially increasing the total number of troops, which is around 900.


http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/31/1099219993094.html?from=storylhs

_________________

Right! "Embed" ourselves in the Liberal Party? Right! Gotcha! Good strategy! :wink:

And might I say, Adrian, that Labor didn't need any help from the Greens to stuff up it's representation in the Senate. Their supremo wheeler-dealers were too clever by half with their preference deals. :wink:

I posted this at the previous thread and repeat it here

I think the following transcript relevant to recent comments by Abbott and Pyne.


Wednesdays at 8.30am, repeated at 8.00pm


Opus Dei in Australian politics.
12 May 2004

print


An Australian politician speaks about his connection to Opus Dei, the first Australian Member of Parliament that we're aware of, to publicly declare his involvement with the conservative Catholic movement, Opus Dei.

Program Transcript

When you visit his office in New South Wales Parliament House, the first thing you notice is the crucifix standing by the phone on his desk. Over his shoulder a picture of the Virgin and Child and a black and white photograph of St Josemaria de Balaguer, founder of the conservative Catholic movement, Opus Dei. There are several books about Islam. And a handsome commendation from the Croatian community on the wall.

He is David Clarke, MLC, Liberal member of the Upper House of the New South Wales Parliament for just over a year.

David Clarke has been described as the convenor of a rapidly-expanding new Christian conservative wing of the New South Wales Liberal party. The President of the New South Wales Young Liberals works on his staff, and they were both present at a meeting of the Bankstown branch of the Young Liberals one night last week where the police had to be called, and someone was allegedly ?'pistol shipped'.

It also turns out that David Clarke has a personal connection with the Opus Dei-run college at New South Wales University, which recently became a major shareholder in the Randwick-Coogee branch of the Young Liberals. Well, students to give Warrane College as their address make up 21 of the 88 members.

Is the Liberal party too progressive for David Clarke's liking?

David Clarke: The Liberal party is a broad church. I see the Liberal party as a conservative party and I think that Federally, the Liberal party is moving along in a very good way indeed. I think that John Howard articulates the values and views of the overwhelming majority of people in this nation.

Stephen Crittenden: I used to think that there were a whole bunch of social issues, like gay rights, and drugs that would simply evaporate in a few years time when a younger generation came to occupy positions of political power. There were signs a few years back that the Young Liberals were beginning to express progressive views about gay rights, for example, now I'm not so sure. The truth is, isn't it, that there are much more conservative people in any generation and that you're determined in the case of the Liberal party, to find them and help them get into Parliament.

David Clarke: Well I certainly am wanting to do that, yes, I make no bones about that. It is true the Young Liberal movement is very, very conservative in its outlook. It has taken a very strong stand on the age of consent; it believes the age of consent should be 18.

Stephen Crittenden: My point is, it wasn't just a few years ago, as conservative as it suddenly is now.

David Clarke: No, it has been moving to a more conservative stand, and I think that's a very good thing. But I think that there is a spiritual upsurge in our nation as a whole. I think people are returning to religious and spiritual values for a whole variety of reasons.

Stephen Crittenden: Isn't it true that in the case of the Young Liberals, there have been reports recently that the Randwick-Coogee branch has effectively been stacked by a bunch of new members from the Opus Dei college at New South Wales University? Last week there was a brawl out at Bankstown where the police had to be called, where a similar stack seemed to be in progress. Aren't those cases linked? And is that link your office?

David Clarke: Well first of all, look, as far as Young Liberal branches are concerned, when you have a Development Vice President of the Young Liberal branch seeking new members, he's going to go out to those areas where his friends are. So if he comes from a particular school and he's got friends there, it's natural that he'll go there. If he's a university student at Sydney or New South Wales, from one of the colleges, he's going to go to that area where his friends are; there's nothing unusual or sinister about that whatsoever. As far as Punchbowl was concerned, most of those people were outsiders who were not members of the Young Liberal movement or the Liberal party, and we don't want people who are going to cause that sort of trouble.

Stephen Crittenden: They were wanting to sign up too, weren't they?

David Clarke: Well they were, but I don't know that they had the views and values that the Liberal party believes in.

Stephen Crittenden: What, they were Muslims?

David Clarke: I think there was a whole range of people there, but I think there were certain extreme elements who were there, who certainly would not be welcomed inside the Liberal party. We welcome people of all backgrounds of goodwill, but they have to adhere to the fundamental core values of our party.

Stephen Crittenden: Are you not at the centre of a highly co-ordinated campaign to bring conservatives, religious conservatives, in fact, into the New South Wales Liberal party, and in fact to drive people of more moderate, progressive views, out of office, through preselections and so on?

David Clarke: I'm not seeking to drive anybody out through preselections, but I do believe it is the responsibility of Christians to involve themselves in public affairs, and the political process, and that's something that I encourage. I see Australia as a Christian nation in the Western tradition, and I believe we have nothing to be ashamed of. I believe that Christian values are at the foundation of our nation and I encourage Christians of all denominations to join the political party of their choice.

Stephen Crittenden: I've been reading your maiden speech, which is on your website, and it's very interesting. You express great concern about our democratic institutions and our democratic way of life, and you say that shouldn't be surrendered to international organisations and foreign bodies. What about international organisations and foreign bodies like the Vatican and Opus Dei?

David Clarke: Well look, I'm talking about the handing over of the legal power to govern Australians. That's a very different thing from people giving their spiritual allegiance to a denomination where the headquarters may be overseas. So I don't see any conflict there at all; giving allegiance to a denomination is a voluntary thing, whereas handing over power to a political institution overseas is a very different kettle of fish altogether.

Stephen Crittenden: Are you a member of Opus Dei?

David Clarke: I'm a Co-operator of Opus Dei, which means that I assist the work of Opus Dei through prayer, through time, through effort and through finances.

Stephen Crittenden: I don't think I've ever heard an Australian politician make an admission like the one you've just made.

David Clarke: Well when you say admission, you know I state it as a fact that I am a Co-operator of Opus Dei. I don't see it as an admission, I just state it as a fact.

Stephen Crittenden: There's a view that Opus Dei in the past decade or so has been largely unsuccessful in its attempts to infiltrate the Catholic right wing of the Labor party in New South Wales, that it's been largely unsuccessful in its attempts to infiltrate the Commonwealth Public Service in Canberra, and that now it's turning its attention, through you, to the Liberal party.

David Clarke: Well I think that's a very fanciful idea. I don't believe that as far as I can see, that Opus Dei is attempting to infiltrate anything. Opus Dei, as I understand it, sees its mission to promote the doctrine of the faith, to do personal apostolate for greater holiness of the laity, and to try and help people achieve sanctification through their daily work.

Stephen Crittenden: I just want to turn back to your maiden speech, if I may. You're full of praise for Bob Santamaria who you describe as a man of heroic virtue. Now of course, Santamaria attempted to have his secret organisation infiltrate the Australian Labor party in the ?'50s with the backing of one very famous Australian Archbishop, until the Vatican itself intervened. Isn't the truth that Santamaria demonstrates how this kind of thing can backfire dreadfully, for the church and for the political party involved. He left the Catholic church in Victoria a smoking ruin, and he nearly destroyed the Labor party.

David Clarke: No Stephen, I don't agree that it demonstrates those things at all. It is true I have a very high admiration for the late Bob Santamaria, and I believe he and those around him played a very effective part in resisting the advance of communism in Australia, particularly in the Trade Unions. And that was a battle that he more or less won. I don't believe that he left the church in ruins at all, I think that's very far from the truth.

Stephen Crittenden: David Clarke, MLC.

Well one possible target of the conservative push into the Liberal party in Bankstown is John Ryan, Deputy Leader of the Liberals in the New South Wales Upper House, and Shadow Minister for Community Services.

John Ryan is a committed evangelical Christian. But he's also supported recent legislation changing the age of consent, and he supports a harm-minimisation approach on drugs.

Stephen Crittenden: John Ryan, welcome to the program. Does Jesus only exist in the right-wing of the Liberal party?

John Ryan: Well Jesus doesn't exist in any political party. Political parties are earthly creations of people which represent what they see as the best interests for society. I mean Jesus was quite clear when he talked about the Kingdom of God, that the Kingdom of God was not of this world, and as a Member of Parliament, whilst I hope to do good things, I think that the Constitution of Australia and the Constitution of New South Wales are pretty hopeless vehicles by which I can try and create the Kingdom of God. I can no more create the Kingdom of God using politics as a medium, than a doctor can generate a resurrection. Being a Christian is an important part of who I am as a politician, but I don't seek to fulfil the gospel in any stretch of the imagination, by something as hopeless a vehicle as a political party to do it.

Stephen Crittenden: So how does your Christianity interact with your politics?

John Ryan: I believe the fundamental role of government is to create order in society. That's essentially what the New Testament understanding of what government's about. So I need to do things which best create order and justice for people in the community. And sometimes even Jesus said in the gospels when he was explaining to someone, he said, ?'Look, Moses tolerated divorce because you people weren't capable of living up to the ideals about marriage'. Now the truth is I disagree with divorce, but I wouldn't for a moment be seeking to repeal laws which make divorce orderly.

Stephen Crittenden: And what about abortion?

John Ryan: Abortion is a particularly tricky one, because it goes to fundamentally what people believe to be the essence of what is human life. And obviously Christians generally have a commitment to protect human life as it is. So on the one hand I've got to protect people's human lives, and on the other hand, there is the need to have an orderly society and I have to say it's an enormously difficult one. To cut to the chase, I'm not seen to be squibbing the issue. I'll never vote for a Bill which seeks to make abortion more accessible, but by the same token I understand that living in the State of New South Wales, it's just going to happen that we're going to have abortions occur, and to some extent there is a need to make sure that they happen in a, well I hate to use the word ?'orderly' fashion, but to make sure that where abortion is obtained, that at least it's done I guess safely, and as limited as it's possible to make it, otherwise if you have no law regulating it at all, then you could just have an open slather, and that wouldn't be desirable from a Christian perspective either.

Stephen Crittenden: Is this in some senses, a debate as much about the soul of Christianity as it is a debate about the soul of the Liberal party? You know, it's just very interesting listening to David Clarke there, he doesn't seem to have any sense of a left tradition of Christianity.

John Ryan: Well the truth is, it's not going to be possible to box Christianity, in my view, into a left or a right ethos. There are some things which Jesus did which were fundamentally radical. Jesus on various occasions was telling people to sell all they had and give them to the poor. In his day, his approach to women was a remarkably progressive one, where he treated women as equals and saw them as having a role within the organisation and dispensation of the gospel; they were pretty radical events, so I don't believe that simply because you're a Christian, therefore you have to have a conservative view about society.

Stephen Crittenden: Is there any doubt that at the moment the Liberal party in New South Wales is experiencing a fairly co-ordinated campaign to move right-wing conservative Christians into party branches, and indeed to get them preselected?

John Ryan: Well one of my colleagues has said that he welcomes the fact that there's been an increase in right-wing activity, and he says that it's a good thing that conservative Christians are having an impact on politics generally. I'm not aware of any specific campaign that I can point to that says that this is an organised level of activity by Christian churches, I personally welcome the fact that Christians want to join the Liberal party and participate. I hope they're in no way given the misunderstanding that there is only one point of view to many of these questions. Most of the issues about which perhaps the more conservative end of the Liberal party have been pushing as being important issues for the Liberal party to confront, are largely ones which have always been resolved in the Liberal party on the basis of conscience. And I personally think that is the best place for it to occur. The Liberal party is a vehicle for gaining the government and the treasury benches of either New South Wales or Australia. It is not about propagating the gospel. If it did, that means that the people who are propagating the gospel have got to live with both the good and bad of the Liberal party, and the truth is, from the Christian tradition, there have been people in the Liberal party that would not necessarily be purveyors or spreaders of the gospel that in fact the church would be embarrassed about. So in my view -

Stephen Crittenden: You don't say.

John Ryan: I certainly wouldn't be seeking to spread the gospel by using the Liberal party. I think as a Christian, I can make an impact on the Liberal party, but it's a hopeless vehicle by which to further the Kingdom of God or the progress of the gospel.

Stephen Crittenden: If it were true that groups like Opus Dei were seeking to infiltrate the Liberal party, would that mean that it was rocky days ahead internally for the party?

John Ryan: Well if there's a Christian group like Opus Dei seeking to infiltrate any political body, the first question I would ask is Why are they bothering? I mean the truth is, the main focus of the mission of the Christian gospel is to change people's hearts. However, if there is an attempt, well obviously I know there are plenty of people in the Liberal party who are not Christians. Gee, I get criticised enough even within the Liberal party for being a Christian, so of course there'll be rocky days ahead.

Stephen Crittenden: John Ryan, MLC.

Well that's all this week. Thanks to producers Michaela Perske and Jenny Personage.



back to The Religion Report homepage

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/relrpt/stories/s1135473.htm

msolga.

Yeah, it was a pretty poor effort all round really.

Oh well, Telstra goes.
Costello becomes PM.
Unions are dead?

My post election haiku.

Does the PM appoint when will the election held in 2007?

Back to the DLP.

Barricades!!!!

The ABC worries me - did anyone else hear the arrogance of Abbot in refusing to answer questions in AM this morning?

Any thoughts on Manne's analysisn of the situation?

Howardism triumphant
by Robert Manne, professor of politics at LaTrobe University.
November 1, 2004/the Age


Australia's political left is struggling to find a remedy for the damage John Howard has inflicted on it, writes Robert Manne.

No one now doubts that Margaret Thatcher changed the political landscape of Britain forever. No one should any longer doubt that, in Australia, John Howard has done the same. The more difficult question with Howard is, in what way?

....Carmen Lawrence has argued that the ALP's fortunes can be reversed through the recruitment of a new, vibrant party rank and file.

....An alternative, left-liberal analysis has come from Barry Jones. Jones argues that since Keating, Labor has become almost ideologically indistinguishable from the Coalition. To revive Labor's fortunes, he advocates a return to the Whitlam-Keating program of progressive cultural reform.

...In my opinion Jones has comprehensively underestimated the impact on Australia of the Howard years. Just as British Labor did not find its answer to Thatcherism by looking back to Harold Wilson or Michael Foot, so is Australian Labor unlikely to find its answer to Howardism while it yearns for a return to the social justice visions of a more optimistic, more generous age.

It is not only Labor but also the left-liberal intelligentsia that is presently faced with a crisis of identity. It seems obvious to me that many of the issues of greatest concern to us are of little interest or are even anathema to the majority of our fellow citizens.

...In the era of Howard's conservative populism there seems little alternative but for the Labor Party to move culturally, if not necessarily economically, to the right.

If this is so, members of the left-liberal intelligentsia have essentially three political options from which to choose. The first is a movement to the Greens. The second is to remain inside Labor, under the discipline of a self-denying ordinance, while waiting for the arrival of more hopeful times. The third option is for the left to conduct the struggles for the causes in which it believes, outside the framework of party politics, temporarily at least.

...Just as the scope for action has narrowed in recent years, so has the need for action, independent of government and outside the framework of party politics, become even more vital in these unpropitious times.

(complete article)
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/31/1099189931263.html

It DOES feel rather like that, Deb.

No. What happened?
(Actually I was extremely worried that the ABC didn't get a run as election issue, considering the past few years.)

Dlowan.

You're not allowed to ask questions about religion... but he's a very proud Catholic... what does it matter whether or not he went to see Archbishop Pell... anyway, why shouldn't he?

<petulant silence, stuck out bottom lip>

Ooops, double post.