The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

Proposed a decade or so ago and resoundingly rejected.

I have no opinion on it, personally - I can't really see all the terrifying consequences delineated by its opponents - but I also cannot really see the touted anti-terror benefits.

Any enlightenment forthcoming re the thing welcome.

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realjohnboy wrote:

Good evening, or I guess it is good morning. So Mr Howard came to Washington. The US press gave it, largely, no coverage So I guess the last cartoon by msolga was appropriate. At their joint news conference Mr Bush expressed the hope that US and AUS troops could come home as soon as the task was finished. Stop the presses for that pronouncement.

No coverage, RJB? What a surprise! :wink:
Um... I wouldn't stop the presses just yet! "The task" could take some time!

realjohnboy wrote:

The National ID Card notion. Is that new in AUS? We have heard it mentioned here in the US, but it is pretty universally opposed. A bit strange, because the gov't already has our Social Security numbers and our drivers' license numbers. But we tend to strongly resist the ID Card as an intrusion. I don't like it, but I can't figure out why.

No, we've had the ID card debate before, in the not to distant past, RJB. It was resoundingly defeated. Cynical souls are suggesting this issue may have recently re-emerged as a distraction from the federal government's other very pressing woes. :wink:

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dlowan wrote:

Proposed a decade or so ago and resoundingly rejected.

I have no opinion on it, personally - I can't really see all the terrifying consequences delineated by its opponents - but I also cannot really see the touted anti-terror benefits.

Any enlightenment forthcoming re the thing welcome.

I doubt that I can provide enlightenment, Deb, just a few comments ...

I doubt that requiring everyone to carry an ID card will have any impact on potential terrorist activity. Isn't that supposed to be the reason we're looking at ID cards again? Though, heaven forbid, should a terrorist attack ever occur in Oz, it would make it a lot easier to identify the victims.

There seems to be a fair amount of disquiet about the potential for identity theft & related criminal activities.

I'm with the JH distraction strategy theory on this one! It's certainly taken the Immigration Department's woes off the front page!:wink:

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Quote:

I doubt that requiring everyone to carry an ID card will have any impact on potential terrorist activity. Isn't that supposed to be the reason we're looking at ID cards again? Though, heaven forbid, should a terrorist attack ever occur in Oz, it would make it a lot easier to identify the victims

I am going to be a stubborn so-and-so on this issue. I am going to keep my mind firmly set against it until I am thoroughly and utterly persuaded that it really is necessary for public safety.

I can see no use for it from an everyday law enforcement perspective UNLESS each state/territory government passes a law (with federal cooperation) that says:

1. a police officer may demand the production of an identity card from anyone at any time without any reason; and

2. if a person doesn't produce their identity card as required they are immediately arrested.

And frankly if they have any ideas about anything remotely approaching that they can shove it.

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goodfielder. I think that is the same attitude that most (or at least, many) Americans have towards the notion of a national ID card. Somehow, somehow, somehow, it is "Big Brotherism" at work and, as mentioned, the notion isn't really new. It came up well before terrorism in our own countries.
True story (totally irrelevant but stuck in my memory): johnboy had just gotten to London in 1973 or so. He was walking down the street. He had, back then, long blond hair. Long blond hair. Three policemen, one in uniform and the other two in plainclothes stopped him. Johnboy had been through this routine before growing up in the US south, so he slapped his hands, outstretched, against the wall of the the building and spread his legs apart in the classic "Search Me" position. The officers became more than a bit embarrassed as folks passing by stopped to see what was going on. "Put your hands down and turn around," one of them hissed, but almost pleadingly. "Please put your hands down."

That is the first time I have remembered that incident for years. I wonder why?

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goodfielder wrote:

Quote:
I doubt that requiring everyone to carry an ID card will have any impact on potential terrorist activity. Isn't that supposed to be the reason we're looking at ID cards again? Though, heaven forbid, should a terrorist attack ever occur in Oz, it would make it a lot easier to identify the victims

I am going to be a stubborn so-and-so on this issue. I am going to keep my mind firmly set against it until I am thoroughly and utterly persuaded that it really is necessary for public safety.

I can see no use for it from an everyday law enforcement perspective UNLESS each state/territory government passes a law (with federal cooperation) that says:

1. a police officer may demand the production of an identity card from anyone at any time without any reason; and

2. if a person doesn't produce their identity card as required they are immediately arrested.

And frankly if they have any ideas about anything remotely approaching that they can shove it.

I am inclined to agree - on the basis that, unless there is a clearly demonstrated public benefit, then giving gummints extra powers is unwise. They are very hard to get back.

That being said, do not lots of countries have 'em, without an ensuing police state?

I guess I am saying I amn't hysterical about it, but I would want damned good evidence for the thing. I ain't heard none yet.

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I keep hearing things like "you have one now, it's a driver's licence" (Bob Carr doesn't have one because he doesn't drive). I also hear "but you have one for work" - I've had one for 35 years for work but I only pull it out when I'm working plainclothes but true I do have to wear one at work now. All this is a sort of niggling. It's almost like they're nibbling bit by bit. I suppose it's true, we don't lose our civil liberties overnight, it happens incrementally and once you've lost one you don't get it back again.

I've also heard the most stupid comment on this which I think came from Peter Beattie - we can have a card for everything. Everything? What if you're like me and lose stuff all the time? No thanks I like my wallet full of cards, I have backup Very Happy

This debate really hasn't got serious yet, they're still flying kites and playing trivia games. I really think it is a distraction. But it's a damn dangerous one.

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Interesting! (Coming from Kim, that is!) :

Last Update: Wednesday, July 20, 2005. 3:30pm (AEST)

Beazley calls for Iraq 'quagmire' exit strategy

Federal Opposition Leader Kim Beazley says the Prime Minister must start planning a strategy to get the Australian troops "bogged down in a quagmire" out of Iraq.

His comments come after the release of a report by the British-based Iraq Body Count and Oxford Research Group, which says that nearly 25,000 civilians have died in Iraq since the US-led invasion in March 2003.

He says the exit strategy should be negotiated between Australia's allies... <cont>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1418375.htm

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Mr H visits Washington #2

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/07/20/edcart2107_gallery__550x384,0.jpg

Mr H visits Washington #3

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/07/20/tandberghowardus_gallery__550x415,0.jpg

RJB, you mentioned that our prime minister wasn't exactly receiving saturation coverage in the US. Not at all surprising, but hardly the point of the exercise. You see, the spin from this visit is for LOCAL (Oz) purposes. In a nutshell, it's to restore some status & credibility to JH's image back home, where there are growing doubts about his judgement (proposed IR "reforms") & the never ending scandals & bad press preceding & following the Palmer Report into immigration & detention centres. So, not only does he get to leave Oz when things are very hot, he also gets (dubious) praise & credibility from important foreign leaders. (I include Rupert Murdoch here. A powerful US citizen now.) And, most importantly, he gets to visit England during the current cricket test between Australia & England. (JH is a cricket tragic.) Rolling Eyes

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Just found another one, in the Australian, this time! JH visits Washington #4. So true, so true! Sad

:

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5028977,00.jpg

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Well summed up msolga. Local consumption indeed. I thought we'd gotten over the photo opportunities of our politicians sharing the podium with powerful international figures. I would like to think that we reckon it's a big yawn. I have the feeling that JH is on the skids. This might be his final grand tour.

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We can only hope, gf! Very Happy

What fascinates me right now is Kim Beazley coming out with that statement yesterday, about the need to set a date for withdrawal of Oz troops from Iraq. Just at the time that JH was assuring George B about what an obliging little nation we are, in regard to anything the US wants, apparently. Interesting timing & I wonder if the ALP is reconsidering the Iraq commitment? Hard to tell, but interesting ...

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Perhaps Kym realises that the ALP have to offer something different from the Coalition? That'd be different, unique, unusual........ :wink:

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Now THAT would be something to celebrate!!!! Very Happy

You should have seen him at the anti-IR rally in Melbourne, gf! Over 100 thousand people there, all with firm resolve! His speech was brilliant, spot on! He was inspiring! Very Happy

You could see he loved it & it gave him strength to fight. What I think is needed now is for him ( & the ALP think tank people) to overcome the scepticism & nervousness about Kim sticking his neck out. It didn't go over at all well with the tax "concessions" issue (though I thought he was absolutely correct - but obviously the press didn't, though! Evil or Very Mad

) Somehow he has to take the plunge in defining how the ALP stands for different ideals than the Libs. Maybe yesterday was a start? (Says she hopefully, grasping at straws.....)

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I'll take a straw too, hopefully not the short one Very Happy

That is heartening msolga. Good to hear the Kym was on the stump, I think there's nothing more inspiring for a political leader than speaking in front of large crowd, it energises.

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... & it would be very nice indeed if he could carry some of that energy & resolve back to Canberra! Very Happy

Go Kim!

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Row over Iraq troops role flares
By Michelle Grattan and Jason Koutsoukis
July 21, 2005/the AGE

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/07/20/pt_21TAN_ALERT_ent-lead__200x181.jpg

As John Howard stands shoulder to shoulder with George Bush in Washington, Kim Beazley says it is time for an Iraq exit plan.

The debate over Australia's military involvement in Iraq was reignited yesterday, with federal Opposition Leader Kim Beazley saying the Government must devise an early exit strategy from what he described as a "quagmire".... <cont>

http://www.theage.com.au/news/iraq/row-over-iraq-troops-role-flares/2005/07/20/1121539032382.html

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I just hope this bites.......Howard on the arse lolololol - sorry for being crude but I can't help it. I know the Germans have a word for taking delight in a friend's misfortunes but have they got a handy one for when someone you despise goes a over t on a banana skin? Twisted Evil

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goodfielder wrote:

I just hope this bites.......Howard on the arse lolololol - sorry for being crude but I can't help it. I know the Germans have a word for taking delight in a friend's misfortunes but have they got a handy one for when someone you despise goes a over t on a banana skin?

Walter? Where is Walter when we need him?

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Yes Walter would know!

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