The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

vikorr wrote:

Arrests, injuries during APEC march

Quote:
Police said the hospitalised officer sustained a head wound after being struck with an iron bar. The other sustained a head injury after being hit with a dart.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22383283-601,00.html

And you wonder why police video 'protests' ?

I'm sure most protestors come to make a point and wish a peaceful protest, but there are indeed, those that come intent on violence.

It is sad when people see police as something other than the human beings that they are, as an object deserving of grievious injury and if necessary, death...

...oh they'd argue that "I meant to aim for the arm, not the head - he moved suddenly - it's not my fault"...but they go armed with intent to cause serious injury, and death can sometimes be the result.

We are all, in the end, human, deserving of respect and equality (whatever clothes we wear)

I agree with many of your points vikorr. Granted, the police have a difficult job, but I though there was an over reaction in many cases to people who were unarmed.
As you say .... We are all, in the end, human, deserving of respect and equality (whatever clothes we wear)

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Quote:

but I though there was an over reaction in many cases to people who were unarmed.

Perhaps. I guess the only way to tell would be to have all the information laid out in front of us to see if we would agree on that. That information would of necessity include any previous history of violence at protests.

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bungie wrote:

msolga wrote:
Amazing!
From Janet Albrechtsen of the AUSTRALIAN!
Never thought I'd see the day ....
The same sentiment, from unlikely sources, is staring to leak out all over the place.

Well folks, the writing must be well & truly on the wall, then?
Next, they bring in the shredders? :wink:

Pass baton to Costello
Janet Albrechtsen Blog
September 06, 2007
The AUSTRALIAN

THIS is one of the hardest columns I will write. John Howard has been the finest prime minister Australia has had. He has overseen extraordinary economic success, created the conditions for a whole new class of aspirational Australians to prosper from the inevitable forces of globalisation, confronted the scourge of terrorism and has fundamentally realigned the political landscape in this country on so many fronts.

Under Howard it became cool to be a conservative. He rebuilt a political philosophy of individual responsibility for a new generation. His legacy is profound. From workplace reform to welfare to indigenous politics, to our sense of national identity, Howard has changed the nation in a way very few leaders ever do. Each step rankled his opponents as they clung to old orthodoxies. Yet Howard, through sheer dint of character and intellectual fortitude, prevailed.

But now he must go. ..... <cont>

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/janetalbrechtsen/index.php/theaustralian/comments/pass_baton_to_costello/

Geeze, I almost had to go and have a puke after reading that load of tripe in the first 2 paragraphs !
But everyone to their own I guess,,

Well, bungie ... she had to tell him how utterly fabulous he was before telling him his time was over & to piss off! Much kinder that way! Laughing

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vikorr wrote:

Quote:
but I though there was an over reaction in many cases to people who were unarmed.

Perhaps. I guess the only way to tell would be to have all the information laid out in front of us to see if we would agree on that. That information would of necessity include any previous history of violence at protests.

The vast majority of demonstrators in the vast majority of demonstrations behave reasonably. There will always be those that over-step the line in extreme circumstances. Whether we like it or not, it happens.

I would argue that a city the size of Sydney was the wrong choice for the APEC meeting. As hinge said, earlier, Canberra would have been a much more manageable choice, security wise. All that surveillance, all those barriers, all that excessive expenditure was required because of the presence of George Bush. Howard would have been well aware that Bush's presence would have the effect of enraging the more extremist demonstrators, well before the event. Then Bush openly sided with his "man of steel" in our election process. Something that would have provoked the extremists even more. I'm not justifying the actions of the extremist fringe, I'm arguing that what occurred was utterly predictable & could easily been avoided, had Howard not wanted to achieve maximum media coverage through choosing Sydney as the site for the meeting. I'm surprised (& relieved) that there wasn't more violence. Most of us watched the goings on on our television screens in our homes in quiet disgust.
That being said, there is no excuse for police removing their ID numbers & causing grief for peaceful demonstrators who got caught in the fray. We are not living in a police state (yet! Rolling Eyes

) & people have every right to demonstrate their abhorrence to the destructive policies of Bush & Howard. Their crimes are far, far worse than the most extreme of the demonstrators, in my book!

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http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/09/09/rg_cartoon_gallery__470x329.jpg

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Finally!!!!!?:

PM tipped to call poll next week
Dennis Shanahan and Patricia Karvelas
September 08, 2007/the AUSTRALIAN

SPECULATION is mounting within the Liberal Party that John Howard could call an October election as early as Wednesday.

As ministers and backbenchers killed off suggestions that the Prime Minister would step down in favour of Peter Costello because of poor polling, attention shifted to the resumption of parliament next week and Mr Howard's scheduled address to Coalition MPs on Wednesday morning.

Although senior Liberals thought it would be unlikely and unusual for Mr Howard to call an election when parliament was sitting, it was not being ruled out.

Mr Howard could announce a date for the election on Wednesday -- one day after visiting Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper addresses parliament.

He could then allow parliament to sit for the rest of the week and on Friday issue the electoral writs for an October 27 election. ...<cont>

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22382270-601,00.html

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Is there any country we won't see uranium to?:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5646001,00.jpg

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Quote:

I'm not justifying the actions of the extremist fringe, I'm arguing that what occurred was utterly predictable & could easily been avoided, had Howard not wanted to achieve maximum media coverage through choosing Sydney as the site for the meeting.

That's a pretty fair observation.

Quote:

I'm surprised (& relieved) that there wasn't more violence. Most of us watched the goings on on our television screens in our homes in quiet disgust.

Same again.

Quote:

That being said, there is no excuse for police removing their ID numbers & causing grief for peaceful demonstrators who got caught in the fray.

Quote:

We are not living in a police state (yet! ) & people have every right to demonstrate their abhorrence to the destructive policies of Bush & Howard. Their crimes are far, far worse than the most extreme of the demonstrators, in my book!

Couldn't agree more.

In relation to violent protests, wow many violent protests have actually worked? Don't politicians just resist such overtures even more?

To me at least, it seems to me that Peaceful and organised protests (ie including, but not just marches) are much more effective.

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By "peaceful demonstrators" I mean those who were there to simply demonstrate & were detained by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is easy, in such situations, to get caught in the middle of a volatile situation. Then the police have to figure out who are the ones causing the trouble & who were just caught in the middle of the trouble. Easy to make mistakes in such circumstances. I don't envy the police but I feel sympathy for those who we simply demonstrating & not causing the problems.

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Oh look! Another poll result!:

Howard's poll plunge
Stephanie Peatling
September 9, 2007 - 5:38PM/SMH

Labor has extended its lead over the Coalition according to the latest Herald/Nielsen poll to be published in The Sydney Morning Herald tomorrow.

Labor's two-party preferred vote rose two points to 57 per cent. The Coalition fell 2 points to 43 per cent. ...<cont>

http://www.smh.com.au/news/apec/howards-poll-plunge/2007/09/09/1189276524682.html

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vikorr wrote:

In relation to violent protests, wow many violent protests have actually worked? Don't politicians just resist such overtures even more?

To me at least, it seems to me that Peaceful and organised protests (ie including, but not just marches) are much more effective.

I don't think violent protests sway many people to support the cause of the protestors. (Probably turn quite a few off!) But they sure do make the headlines, though!

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Watching the ABC news just now. Rather shocking footage of a (female) reporter with camera being thrown, quite violently to the ground. Then from yesterday, a man on the ground being held down by two policemen, while another appeared to be getting stuck right into him. He later claimed he was just trying to cross the road (with his 11 year old son) when he was detained. Shocked

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From the ABC News, again: apparently there's still talk in the government ranks that Howard could quit prior to the election. Some are saying there's a 50/50 chance it'll happen. Gosh! Surprised

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Quote:

From the ABC News, again: apparently there's still talk in the government ranks that Howard could quit prior to the election. Some are saying there's a 50/50 chance it'll happen. Gosh!

I think there is a realisation that the Liberals cannot win the election with Howard in charge...so a number of them are fearing for their seats.

My guess is that Howard will either resign or lose the election, but that he won't be pushed out (publicly anyway)

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vikorr wrote:

Quote:
From the ABC News, again: apparently there's still talk in the government ranks that Howard could quit prior to the election. Some are saying there's a 50/50 chance it'll happen. Gosh!

I think there is a realization that the Liberals cannot win the election with Howard in charge...so a number of them are fearing for their seats.

My guess is that Howard will either resign or lose the election, but that he won't be pushed out (publicly anyway)

Well, if the polls are correct, vikorr (see the SMH/Age one above, to be published tomorrow) he's well & truly on the skids. Losing ground by the day, it seems. It's a bit late for those Lib backbenchers to be getting worried, don't you think? No one objected to the one man show while he was getting away with outrageous things. Just a very brave handful had the guts to object to issues like the detention of asylum seekers. And who would they replace him with, anyway?: Captain Smirk, whose even less popular than Howard? They're in a pickle, alright. Some drastic action, perhaps some scare tactics could be called for! A "terrorist scare", perhaps? (Heaven forbid! Wash my mouth! Forget I even said that! Shocked

)
But a resignation at this late stage? Hardly "Man of Steel" stuff. That's more like Man of Jelly.

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Here's the Sydney Morning Herald version of one of those APEC-related incidents on ABC News I referred to earlier.:

Jailed for jaywalking

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/09/09/gregarrest_wideweb__470x301,0.jpg

Footage of Greg McLeay's arrest.
Photo: Ninemsn

Matthew Benns
September 9, 2007

A FATHER of three wept yesterday as he revealed how crossing the road ahead of an APEC motorcade led to his violent arrest in front of his young son and a traumatic 22 hours in jail.

Greg McLeay was released on bail yesterday after his wife, Sophie, and children spent a sleepless Friday night worrying about him.

"Because of APEC I was not allowed to speak to him - even the lawyer couldn't," Mrs McLeay said.

"The children are traumatised. We spent the night sleeping together on the sofa. How does walking to yum cha with your 11-year-old son end up with 22-hours in jail and no access to a lawyer?"

Footage available on ninemsn showed Mr McLeay, a 52-year-old accountant from Sydney's North Shore, speaking to police in Pitt Street before four officers pushed him to the ground.

He could be clearly heard trying to explain that he was simply attempting to protect his glasses. He has a condition called astigmatism, which means he can barely see without them.

Mr McLeay was arrested under sweeping powers given to police for the APEC period that allows officers to arrest and hold people without bail until APEC ends.

Mr McLeay said he and his son, George, cycled into the city on Friday - the APEC public holiday - and met a friend, Stephen Carter, 40, to work on his accounts at Mr McLeay's Pitt Street office.

They walked out at lunchtime to go to Chinatown for yum cha. They were crossing the street to avoid a police cordon outside the Westin hotel when a police officer started shouting at them.

"I didn't know what was going on," Mr McLeay said.

"I asked which way to go and he directed me around the block. I started to walk away and he suddenly started yelling at me. It was like a fool's comedy.

"He threatened me with arrest and demanded my ID. Then this character pushed me and told me that I had assaulted a police officer.

"I was pushed up against the wall and then I was thrown to the ground and they kept telling me to put my hands behind my back. There must have been four of them pinning me to the ground.

"I was frogmarched down to the hotel's underground car park and then they tried to put another pair of cuffs on me. I was just crossing the road. Never have I felt so mortified, embarrassed and invaded. I feel violated." ...<cont>

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/09/08/1188783554892.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

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msolga wrote:

Here's the Sydney Morning Herald version of one of those APEC-related incidents on ABC News I referred to earlier.:

Jailed for jaywalking

Footage of Greg McLeay's arrest.
Photo: Ninemsn

Matthew Benns
September 9, 2007

A FATHER of three wept yesterday as he revealed how crossing the road ahead of an APEC motorcade led to his violent arrest in front of his young son and a traumatic 22 hours in jail.
#snip#

Mr McLeay said he and his son, George, cycled into the city on Friday - the APEC public holiday - and met a friend, Stephen Carter, 40, to work on his accounts at Mr McLeay's Pitt Street office.

They walked out at lunchtime to go to Chinatown for yum cha. They were crossing the street to avoid a police cordon outside the Westin hotel when a police officer started shouting at them.

"I didn't know what was going on," Mr McLeay said.

"I asked which way to go and he directed me around the block. I started to walk away and he suddenly started yelling at me. It was like a fool's comedy.

"He threatened me with arrest and demanded my ID. Then this character pushed me and told me that I had assaulted a police officer.

"I was pushed up against the wall and then I was thrown to the ground and they kept telling me to put my hands behind my back. There must have been four of them pinning me to the ground.

"I was frogmarched down to the hotel's underground car park and then they tried to put another pair of cuffs on me. I was just crossing the road. Never have I felt so mortified, embarrassed and invaded. I feel violated." ...<cont>

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/09/08/1188783554892.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

This is the sort of thing I was referring to earlier vikorr. Totally uncalled for and totally UNAUSTRALIAN . More like scences from South Africa some years ago.

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Hi Bungie,

I quite agree, if the story is accurate, that it is unAustralian.

One thing I have found out from knowing a number of police, is how news tends to report only one version of a story (to make it news), and we all know when both versions of an issue are heard they usually differ remarkably.

I'm not saying it is inaccurate, just that I won't make a judgement based on one side of a story. I did see the video footage. The man was clearly struggling (he may or may not have had a good reason, glasses included), but there was no footage of what occurred previously, and no full version provided by police.

For example, what if this mans family had chose that resteraunt because it was on the motorcade path, and the fellow took his child with him, and stood still in front of the motorcade as a form of protest?

Of course, this is just a possibility, and I don't know the full events, so I am not to know.

Thankfully, there are a number of things that can help resolve the matter :
1. The video footage that the NSW Govt are likely to have (I saw a news article where they said they can cover the whole Sydney CBD with video surveylance)
2. The news video footage
3. Perhaps an independent witness
4. We have courts to adjudicate on these things
5. And in NSW I believe theres also some sort of independent watchdog (in Qld it's the Crime & Misconduct Commission - CMC).

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What terrifies/disappoints/shocks me most about this is that Albrechtsen is on the Board Of The ABC! A Murdoch lackey openly proselytizing her employer's political opinion while at the same time (using her other face) belittling the ABC as being a hotbed of leftwing latte drinking barrow pushers.

Or maybe she's just Andrew Bolt in a dress.

msolga wrote:

Amazing!
From Janet Albrechtsen of the AUSTRALIAN!
Never thought I'd see the day ....
The same sentiment, from unlikely sources, is staring to leak out all over the place.

Well folks, the writing must be well & truly on the wall, then?
Next, they bring in the shredders? :wink:

Pass baton to Costello
Janet Albrechtsen Blog
September 06, 2007
The AUSTRALIAN

THIS is one of the hardest columns I will write. John Howard has been the finest prime minister Australia has had. He has overseen extraordinary economic success, created the conditions for a whole new class of aspirational Australians to prosper from the inevitable forces of globalisation, confronted the scourge of terrorism and has fundamentally realigned the political landscape in this country on so many fronts.

Under Howard it became cool to be a conservative. He rebuilt a political philosophy of individual responsibility for a new generation. His legacy is profound. From workplace reform to welfare to indigenous politics, to our sense of national identity, Howard has changed the nation in a way very few leaders ever do. Each step rankled his opponents as they clung to old orthodoxies. Yet Howard, through sheer dint of character and intellectual fortitude, prevailed.

But now he must go. ..... <cont>

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/janetalbrechtsen/index.php/theaustralian/comments/pass_baton_to_costello/

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I just saw the assault by the police on a female photographer. It was not justified on any planet, let alone in Australia in 2007. Those worthless police thugs should be sacked, charged, and probably imprisoned.

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The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

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