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The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 08:42 pm
lezzles wrote:
I don't really give a damn what he does.

However, amnesia doesn't come on after only one or two drinks so if he or any other polly goes out on the town at our expense ....


But we don't know if it was at our expense. For all we know it might have been paid for by his US editor friend ... or out of his own pocket (if he could find it! Laughing )

In any case, even if it was at taxpayers' expense, it wouldn't have cost nearly as much as all these years of us funding two homes for John & Janette, the endless renovations, the constant flights home b/n Canberra & Sydney ....
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 09:02 pm
Incidentally, the journalist who "broke" (& rather embellished?) the story of Kevin Rudd's big night out was none other than Glenn Milne, of the now infamous Walkley Awards incident last year. Makes you wonder, don't it? ... Rolling Eyes :

Push comes to shove as media war takes centre stage
Nick O'Malley
December 2, 2006/SMH


PERHAPS only Glenn Milne will ever truly know what was going through his mind when he pushed Crikey.com.au founder Stephen Mayne from the stage in front of television cameras during the Walkley journalism award ceremony on Thursday night. Or perhaps he can't remember.... <cont>

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/push-comes-to-shove-as-media-war-takes-centre-stage/2006/12/01/1164777794970.html
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 09:15 pm
One of Mr Milne's articles on Mr Rudd yesterday. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. :wink: :

Act betrays public persona
Sunday Herald
Glenn Milne
August 19, 2007 12:00am


THE political danger for Kevin Rudd as he contemplates his moment of New York madness is that it gives the lie to the persona he has so far successfully sold to voters.

We are talking here not only of Rudd's deliberate projection as a bookish, Mandarin-speaking intellect, but more of his claims to be a churchgoing family man who counts as his hero Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the Lutheran pastor martyred by Adolf Hitler. The aspiration to high principle by association is obvious.

Only last week Rudd addressed the Australian Christian Lobby. He was a prominent member of the Federal Parliamentary prayer group.

He has declared the Christian faith, along with a commitment to social justice, to be one of the guiding principles of his life.

And this: "For me, my family is the most important thing in my life. It is the backbone of my life."

Scores, on the East Side of Manhattan, is variously described as "a strip club", "a haven for horny high rollers" and "one of several gentlemen's clubs which changed the face of adult entertainment during the early 1990s".

It is full-on. An Australian who's been there described the "entertainment" as: "The girls start with dresses on. Then they come off and they don't have any bras on -- just a G-string. Then they start dancing, rubbing their breasts into the customers' faces while lap dancing."

You have to ask yourself what Therese, his wife of 25 years -- who has sacrificed her career to his ambitions -- and his teenage children would be thinking on discovering their husband and father cavorted with strippers in Manhattan. Voters will be having the same thoughts.

History shows the electorate is swift in judgment on politicians who fail the character test. Ask Mark Latham.


http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22268601-662,00.html
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 09:20 pm
As the cartoonists saw it.:

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/08/19/20cartoon_gallery__470x256,0.jpg
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 09:24 pm
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5617425,00.jpg
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lezzles
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 09:27 pm
vikorr wrote:
Hello Lezzles


Hello vikorr, how are you? Hope you are fit and well.

vikorr wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their own perspective.


You bet your sweet bippy they are!

vikorr wrote:
I recall once, in the 80's, a guy I didn't have much time for, asking me if I liked Pink Floyd. Not being any big Pink Floyd fan, but not disliking them either, I said "They're okay".

He replied "Their gay."

Now what does a persons sexuality have to do with their singing ability?


Not a bloody thing, mate. Your example is entirely irrelevant.

vikorr wrote:
In a similar vein, what does Rudd attending a strip club have to do with his ability to govern a country well?


In case you didn't read it before, I will repeat -

lezzles wrote:
I don't really give a damn what he does.


As far as his ability to govern a country well -

lezzles wrote:
However, amnesia doesn't come on after only one or two drinks so if he or any other polly goes out on the town at our expense, I damn-well expect them to remember it! (Yes, I remember big Mal, and the same applied to him. Very Eminent Person - hahahahahahaha!!!)


My meaning there is that Mr Rudd said (and I saw HIM on tv saying it, I am not quoting some journo who may or may not conveniently remember things a few years later) that he was too drunk to remember what happened. To completely forget what you did means you are REALLY blotto.

That might make him just like any other yobbo who wipes himself out having a good time, but the difference is he is not 'any other yobbo', he is aspiring to lead the nation out of all sorts of troubles (war, wheat bribery scandals, etc), he is setting himself up in the public eye as someone who is just that much better than the rest of us mere mortals - and don't expect me to believe he isn't (I'm not naive and I'm not Kim Beazley).

It's called responsible behaviour.

How can I trust him to behave in a responsible manner as Prime Minister when he has already shown he cannot behave in a responsible manner as an official representative of his country?

Thus -

lezzles wrote:
Sorry, he's lost my vote - how could you trust him? Sure, it makes him human and 'one of the boys' but -
a) he can be human and still retain his dignity and
b) I wouldn't vote for one of the boys either.


You seem to have gone for the jugular as if I was some kind of Nazi red-neck. I am far from that, but I do expect excellence in Parliament. I know that is an almost impossible dream, but I do expect it and I will not condone anything less. :wink:
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 09:31 pm
<gasp> Another one!:

Nelson: I went to strip club, too
Dan Harrison
August 20, 2007 - 12:20PM/the AGE


Defence Minister Brendan Nelson has weighed into the controversy over Kevin Rudd's visit to a New York strip club by admitting he visited a strip club 30 years ago. ..<cont>

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/nelson-i-went-to-strip-club-too/2007/08/20/1187462137020.html
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 09:53 pm
lezzles wrote:
It's called responsible behaviour.


.. which is what we all want from our elected parliamentary representatives, lezzles. Personally, I doubt that I will vote for either of the two major parties, but for policy reasons. Too much Tweedledum & Tweedled for me, not enough courage & vision. But you know, I don't find invading a country that Australia has absolutely no beef with as terribly responsible either .... & personally, I find that a much more serious fall from grace in the "responsibility" stakes. I think this whole Rudd-strip-club thing a shameless beat-up, aimed at character assassination by desperate people fearful of the Libs losing power. And, according to my morning paper, rumour has it that Julia Guillard (sp?) will be next. You know, I have a strong feeling that the anticipated voter backlash will not be directed at the targets of these desperate & nasty smear campaigns. I think the messengers (particularly the gutless ones behind the scenes who "know nothing") might come to regret these attacks. I certainly hope so! This is despicable gutter politics.
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lezzles
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 10:48 pm
msolga wrote:
But we don't know if it was at our expense. For all we know it might have been paid for by his US editor friend ... or out of his own pocket (if he could find it! Laughing )


Either way, he was there representing Australia as an official UN observer. The trip to the US was at our expense and he would have been on an expense allowance while he was there.

msolga wrote:
In any case, even if it was at taxpayers' expense, it wouldn't have cost nearly as much as all these years of us funding two homes for John & Janette, the endless renovations, the constant flights home b/n Canberra & Sydney ....


You're so right - like I said to vikorr - I'm no red-neck. I expect excellence from them all.

I told you ages ago that I don't get involved in political arguments because I am so disillusioned by all sides. I read this thread all the time, but, as you know, I rarely respond. This is why. Cool
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 11:00 pm
lezzles wrote:
I told you ages ago that I don't get involved in political arguments because I am so disillusioned by all sides. I read this thread all the time, but, as you know, I rarely respond. This is why. Cool


Because I responded to what you posted, lezzles?

I don't think I've attacked you for your views?

Confused

...& as you might have gathered, I'm not exactly inspired by either of the two major parties, either.
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lezzles
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 11:05 pm
msolga wrote:
.. which is what we all want from our elected parliamentary representatives, lezzles. Personally, I doubt that I will vote for either of the two major parties, but for policy reasons. Too much Tweedledum & Tweedled for me, not enough courage & vision. But you know, I don't find invading a country that Australia has absolutely no beef with as terribly responsible either .... & personally, I find that a much more serious fall from grace in the "responsibility" stakes.


So far you have said nothing I disagree with.

msolga wrote:
.. I think this whole Rudd-strip-club thing a shameless beat-up, aimed at character assassination by desperate people fearful of the Libs losing power. And, according to my morning paper, rumour has it that Julia Guillard (sp?) will be next. You know, I have a strong feeling that the anticipated voter backlash will not be directed at the targets of these desperate & nasty smear campaigns. I think the messengers (particularly the gutless ones behind the scenes who "know nothing") might come to regret these attacks. I certainly hope so! This is despicable gutter politics.


Again, in principle, I agree. However, there are just as many mudslingers on both sides. I suppose we are meant to think they even themselves out. Surely you don't really believe that all Labor members are good, solid, honest, true blue defenders of all that is good and holy while all Libs are evil, greedy, grasping, lying, conniving agents of the devil and George Bush! No, you're a lot smarter than that!

Or do you????? :wink:
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lezzles
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 11:37 pm
msolga wrote:
Because I responded to what you posted, lezzles?

I don't think I've attacked you for your views?

Confused

...& as you might have gathered, I'm not exactly inspired by either of the two major parties, either.


Sorry, our posts are out of sequence! No, of course it's not that!

I NEVER ask anyone to agree with my views. If people disagree with me they're welcome to their own opinions. That's their prerogative, and I will listen to other peoples' views and take note of what they are saying.

I think my whole point is that I don't think I want to vote for our version of Bill Clinton - Mr Suave, Mr Nice Guy, Mr Fine Family Man etc - but what is going on under the desk??? :wink:

Actually, what you said about Glen Milne was very apropos to this discussion. Here we have a very well known, well respected political journalist. His views on various pollies and their respective parties have been the basis of much discussion over the years and have, I am in no doubt, swayed many voters come election times. Suddenly we see a new side to him, drunk and out of control, acting like an obnoxious fool at the country's most prestigious media awards show. Destroyed any respect I had for his work. Not for the man - I don't know him - but for the journalist whose integrity fell off the stage with him. Okay, I'm tough, but just like the pollies, journos hold a lot of power in their hands. Rolling Eyes

I dread election day! At least I am no longer in JH's electorate, so no one can blame me this time! Laughing
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 11:45 pm
lezzles wrote:
.. Surely you don't really believe that all Labor members are good, solid, honest, true blue defenders of all that is good and holy while all Libs are evil, greedy, grasping, lying, conniving agents of the devil and George Bush! No, you're a lot smarter than that!

Or do you????? :wink:


No, lezzles, I certainly don't believe that at all. I believe that politicians are just that - politicians. Who work within the constraints imposed on them & often compromise their own beliefs for "the party good". However, I believe there are completely over-the-top, unacceptable degrees of dishonesty & lack of transparency & accountability ... in this category I would include our participation in the Iraq invasion, the treatment of David Hicks, the Haneef debacle, "children overboard", the Libs declaration of absolutely no knowledge of the AWB scandal, to name just a few ...

Go back through most of my posts, over most of this year, in this thread regarding the ALP alternative .... I think you'll find that I have not exactly been a champion of Rudd's "vision" for the future. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm finding Rudd's ALP quite a disappointment.

In Victoria we have a Labor government which (to me, anyway) lost its lustre long ago. Trouble is, there's no viable alternative.

What I'm saying is that I would love to have Labor governments that adhere to more "traditional" Labor values. But these days, for all sorts of reasons, many have moved so far to the right that they have more in common with the conservative alternatives than I feel comfortable with or can whole-heartedly support.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 11:54 pm
Some time ago in this thread I described what I believed were voters' alternatives in this coming election: a choice between The Thoroughly Discredited Party & The Very Disappointing Party. I haven't had reason to change my view since then. Sad. Sad
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 12:13 am
Crikey's two bob's worth on Rudd's big night out.:

Dear Squatters,

The truth is, when it comes to booze and womanising, Kevin Rudd just doesn't cut it. The Scores affair is amateur hour stuff, a night on the turps that reveals Kevin .07 as an absolute innocent. He'll need to do a lot more than make a single semi-conscious visit to a lap bar if he's going to make a mark on the honour roll of louche, libidinous and lubricated politicians ...

Bob Hawke -- boozer, womanizer; a lifetime of big nights out, even dumped his wife for his biographer.

Billy Snedden -- died on the job fer chrissakes, though the ''loaded'' condom in question, rumoured to be a designer label, is yet to surface on eBay.

Malcolm Fraser -- lost his pants after a big night in Memphis and don't get us started on the cocktail onions.

John Curtin -- a recovering alcoholic and Labour icon.

Bill Clinton -- one big night after another, some involving cigars, the Oval Office and dry-cleaning, which is just another unacceptable layer of high-risk behaviour.

FDR -- had a mistress throughout his presidency

JFK -- no record of the number of mistresses, though there are tales of almost daily turnover. As a president he made a servicable er-ction.

John Major -- his affair with health secretary Edwina Currie is about the only thing that ever tweaked the shirt from his underpants.

Name a French president -- to not have a mistress would be an electoral liability.

Then there's the other nagging question in this whole Rudd-Scores affair: it seems inconceivable that Kevin Rudd can have done anything so politically defining without taking a lead from his mentor, the man whose shining example he so shamelessly mimics. So if Kevin went to an east side lap bar, what is John Howard hiding?

~
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 01:45 am
Quote:
You seem to have gone for the jugular as if I was some kind of Nazi red-neck.
Quote:
My meaning there is that Mr Rudd said (and I saw HIM on tv saying it, I am not quoting some journo who may or may not conveniently remember things a few years later) that he was too drunk to remember what happened. To completely forget what you did means you are REALLY blotto.

That might make him just like any other yobbo who wipes himself out having a good time, but the difference is he is not 'any other yobbo', he is aspiring to lead the nation out of all sorts of troubles (war, wheat bribery scandals, etc), he is setting himself up in the public eye as someone who is just that much better than the rest of us mere mortals - and don't expect me to believe he isn't (I'm not naive and I'm not Kim Beazley).

It's called responsible behaviour.

How can I trust him to behave in a responsible manner as Prime Minister when he has already shown he cannot behave in a responsible manner as an official representative of his country?


Thank you for clarifying what you meant…that was one of the questions that didn't get through on my edit.

Quote:
I do expect excellence in Parliament. I know that is an almost impossible dream, but I do expect it and I will not condone anything less.


Do your expectations leave many choices re candidates? (after all, comparing the two major parties...the would be PM got very drunk on his own time...the actual PM got drunk at work, as well as lying in order to send Australians to war in Iraq, lying to the electorate over children overboard and AWB, and campaigning on fear and bribery)

From my perspective…if private life drunkness = worktime irresponsibility, then considering how many Australians have ever been very drunk, Australian workplaces would be an absolute shambles...and I understand you think any would be PM must be different on this score...and we hold a difference of opinion in relation this Smile
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 06:59 am
Ha! Very Happy Did they think we were silly, or something? And can us taxpayers have a refund now, please? :

Workplace ads backfire: survey
August 20, 2007 - 11:14AM
SMH


The Federal Government's latest workplace relations advertising campaign has backfired, a new survey has found.

The Roy Morgan survey, commissioned by political activist group GetUp!, has found 45 per cent of Australians feel less positive towards the Government's laws as a result of the multi-million dollar campaign.

Only 23 per cent say it has made them feel better about the laws.

Of the remainder, 24 per cent say the ads have not made them feel differently about the laws, while 8 per cent said they were not sure.

"Australians know bad policy when they see it," said GetUp! executive director Brett Solomon.

"And wasting millions of dollars of taxpayer money on trying to convince them otherwise has only backfired badly on this Government."... <cont>

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/workplace-ads-backfire-survey/2007/08/20/1187462127597.html
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 04:43 pm
Heh, despite anything else that the liberals may or may not do leading up to the election, Workchoices is the one reason I simply will not vote for them (and I'm not effected by it...but I object very much to the long term socioeconomic impact it will have on Australia)
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lezzles
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 09:21 pm
This is my second attempt at this posting, the original was well thought out, very structured and no doubt contained such wit and wisdom that you would all be demanding that I stand for PM. Unfortunately, when I hit the spellcheck a message appeared telling me that Microsoft couldn't perform the function and would have to shut down and (worst of all) that I would probably lose what I was working on. It did, I did and, like Richard Harris, I doubt that I'll ever have that recipe again. Sigh.....
Crying or Very sad

Hi vikorr and msolga!

Don't get me wrong, I did not take offence, nor do I mean to give offence.

vikorr wrote:
Do your expectations leave many choices re candidates?


I expect ALL parties to scour their ranks for the BEST person. Are we to believe there are no 'responsible' members of either party?

vikorr wrote:
(after all, comparing the two major parties...the would be PM got very drunk on his own time...


When I served overseas it was drummed into me before embarking that everything I did would reflect on Australia, on or off duty. That did not only apply to me, but to all who represent the country o/s. Most of the time people are unaware of this for the simple reason that ninetynine percent of our reps do behave themselves [or at least they are discreet about their indiscretions].


vikorr wrote:
...the actual PM got drunk at work, as well as lying in order to send Australians to war in Iraq, lying to the electorate over children overboard and AWB, and campaigning on fear and bribery)


I repeat, I expect ALL parties to scour their ranks for the BEST person. Are we to believe there are no 'responsible' members of either party?

vikorr wrote:
From my perspective…if private life drunkness = worktime irresponsibility, then considering how many Australians have ever been very drunk, Australian workplaces would be an absolute shambles...and I understand you think any would be PM must be different on this score...and we hold a difference of opinion in relation this Smile


People who cannot hold their booze have little place in high public office. I am not saying they should not drink (or even get drunk on occasion) - it is the blacking out, the amnesia, the loss of self control, that is the problem. Yes, I have seen it. Yes, I have helped 'cover it up'. I am not proud of that. I did it because it was part of my job, but it disgusted me personally. And YES! I do expect more from my Prime Minister.

Sadly, some Australian workplaces are absolute shambles. Fake sickies, slovenly work, malingering, pilfered supplies, pilfered stocks. People endangering themselves and their workmates by operating machinery when hungover. It happens. Doesn't make it right. What it does do is destroy those workplaces eventually because operating costs have become too high and people would rather buy cheaper imports.

(msolga, I think I may have mentioned this before, but...) I come from a Labor Party family. I think until I started opening my mouth and upsetting the status quo by asking the wrong questions, no one in my tribe ever even contemplated voting other than Labor. Three of my rellies were elected to public office and were considered to be more than good at their jobs. I loved them as people, but I was ashamed of them as pollies. The deals that got them elected, the lies, shenanigans that went on, it made my skin crawl. It happens. Doesn't make it right.

I can't stop it, I can't change it. But I will not condone it or lower my expectations. I guess we just have to agree to differ on this. (But I enjoy talking with you both.) Cool

We need another Draco. He sure whooped them archons' tails! Twisted Evil
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 01:55 am
Quote:
I can't stop it, I can't change it. But I will not condone it or lower my expectations. I guess we just have to agree to differ on this. (But I enjoy talking with you both.)


Hi Lezzles, I don't expect you to lower your expectations, and the 'conflict' (or difference) I suppose, is a matter of differing expectations.
0 Replies
 
 

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