The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

msolga wrote:

Yeah, that'd be terrific! Another shifty leader with a fresh set of core & non-core promises.

It's just like Wilso suggested; Wrest power from the incumbents, and take it from there. Howler's crew scraped back in on the slightest of margins under the false premise of being in control of the RBA and home loan interest rates, which (as the RBA stated at the time) was an absolute crock of shite. But the fear factor won out again.

msolga wrote:

I just don't like the thought of Oz having a similar experience to the UK. They elected a Labour government after all those hideous years (for Labour folk) under Thatcher. And what did they get? The Blair government = a Clayton's Labour government. Honestly, Labour supporters must be so disillusioned by the experience. It wouldn't surprise me if some have just given up on participating in the political process in disgust.

Blair doesn't appear to have any connection with his worker base, and that shows up in so many ways. His wife, on the other hand, is as loopy a lefty as one could be with that much money to play around with.

msolga wrote:

Me, I like a Labor government that sort of resembles a Labor government! :wink:

Rudd still has his feet firmly planted in suburban life. His family home is as modest as any other in the street, and since his mother died, Kevin's sister has taken on the house. Oh, and compared to Keating and his Armani suits, Rudd is quite drab in his understated spectacles and off-the-rack suits. Would you agree Msolga? :wink:

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bungie wrote:

As I have said in a previous post, you have to admire bonzai for standing up for his mates ...

Was that tongue-in-cheek? Howler started a witch-hunt with Rudd's meetings with Burke. How's that working out for him? Did he stand up for Santoro? Did he live up to his promise to hand over the reigns to his treasurer? His own electorate of Bennelong rarely sees him, and he only just made the grade in that area in the last election. His new "mates", Cheney and Bush will be the death of him. His loyalties are with the sinking ship.

bungie wrote:

it's just a pity a labor leader didn't stand up for the working class

Rudd couldn't be more grounded. And if you look at the history of the party, it was Graeme Richardson, Paul Keating, and Laurie Brereton that swung the Labor party so far to the right.

It's all about winning elections, my friend. The Liberals had to swing so far to the left in order to achieve a victory that the difference between the two parties is hard to decipher, but for the name only.

bungie wrote:

and and promise them a share of the country's wealth instead of trying to pander to big business.

That's not a core Labor party direction. Public health, schooling, dental care, worker's rights. Those are where the party is letting itself down, IMHO.

bungie wrote:

It has to be workers putting bonzai back in power all the time.

He used the dirtiest of tricks with his ridiculously innacurate (and incredibly expensive) mortgage forecasting scale ruler. Scare tactics he's learnt off the corrupt US admin.

bungie wrote:

The ALP needs to get back to its roots.

I agree. Housing first, health second, schooling third, and jobs fourth.

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By the way, I wasn't suggesting that Labor should get in and then break their promises - rather I was saying that should do all they can to get elected, and then go for the less palatable changes at the next election.

Quote:

.... & media ownership concentrated in too few hands. For most of the Howard years most political commentary in Oz has been quite conservative & generally uncritically approving of JH & co.

Talking about that, if you want to read an interesting book on how prevelant our media, public service, uni's, NGO's etc are prevented from speaking out against the government, there's a book called 'Silencing Dessent' by Clive Hamilton and Sarah Maddison, that you may find interesting.

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Builder wrote:

Oh, and compared to Keating and his Armani suits, Rudd is quite drab in his understated spectacles and off-the-rack suits. Would you agree Msolga? :wink:

Absolutely.
TinTin needs a make-over! :wink:

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msolga wrote:

Builder wrote:
Oh, and compared to Keating and his Armani suits, Rudd is quite drab in his understated spectacles and off-the-rack suits. Would you agree Msolga? :wink:

Absolutely.
TinTin needs a make-over! :wink:

Sure, but I don't want the Queer eye for the Straight guy crew anywhere near him. Okay? Laughing

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bungie wrote:

... it's just a pity a labor leader didn't stand up for the working class and and promise them a share of the country's wealth instead of trying to pander to big business. It has to be workers putting bonzai back in power all the time. The ALP needs to get back to its roots.

I think part of the problem is Labor's confusion about its identity & who its natural constituents might be in the 21st century. The old "working class" (strictly blue collar) Labor Party is (obviously) a thing of the past & various attempts at redefinition (while moving to the right politically) haven't been all that successful. Once Labor figures that one out, the focus should be to work out positive ways to sell its message. (As "natural constituents" I would include the concerns of the "under-employed"/working poor (ever expanding numbers under the IR laws), the (hidden & under-acknowledged numbers of) the unemployed, students, those concerned with civil liberties or environmental issues, the ageing, pensioners & retirees (their numbers will be huge soon ... the list could go on & on.)

I'm wondering what happened to Rudd's campaign of debunking Howard's "family values" credentials a few months back? I thought he was onto something positive there. (Like how could Howard possibly support so-called family values when he's so willing to screw the bread winners in the workplace with his IR laws?)

Anyway, I reckon there must be positive ways of selling the benefits of far & decent health, education & other reforms to Australians, so it's not simply an argument about how much improved public services cost. Too often Labor's well intentioned efforts in these areas (like with Latham's education funding reforms) were dismissed as promoting"class warfare", etc. When really, it was is about creating a fairer & more cohesive society & reducing the growing gap between the haves & have nots in this country.

Sorry if this post seems a bit all over the place .... thinking out loud here.

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Builder wrote:

msolga wrote:
Builder wrote:
Oh, and compared to Keating and his Armani suits, Rudd is quite drab in his understated spectacles and off-the-rack suits. Would you agree Msolga? :wink:

Absolutely.
TinTin needs a make-over! :wink:

Sure, but I don't want the Queer eye for the Straight guy crew anywhere near him. Okay?

Absolutely!
A sort of manly, yet sensitive but strong .... yet a sort of 21st century image, just a little stylish ... all at the same time!
Should be easy! :wink:

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http://www.news.com.au/sundaymail/story/0,23739,21442763-5003402,00.html

Quote:

FEDERAL Workplace Relations Minister Joe Hockey will not appear before an inquiry to deny claims he told a company to sack its workers and re-employ them on individual contracts.

Should TriStar be able to produce evidence of this meeting, this could turn very interesting.

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Another rather amusing article (amusing in how the govt tries to mislead voters)

http://www.news.com.au/sundaymail/story/0,23739,21442775-5003402,00.html

Quote:

FEDERAL Communications Minister Helen Coonan says she's confident a fast broadband network will be rolled out within three years without touching taxpayers' money.

Just remember the main part of this quote - without touching taxpayers' money.

Quote:

Senator Coonan said she was already in discussions with Telstra and other carriers about setting up such a network without dipping into government funds

Telstra have said a repeated a very emphatic NO to Fibre To The Node broadband, and won't switch ADSL2 on unless a competitor already offers it.

Quote:

She said the Government had spent $2 billion on broadband in under-serviced areas in rural, regional and remote Australia in the past two years.

Well, there's $2B of tax payers money. At that rate, it's $3B over three years, so Rudd's proposal isn't too far off current Govt expenditure.

Quote:

"We've also put aside a fund to ensure that there's a guarantee that no matter where you live, you will be able to access broadband.

Remember the original quote - without touching taxpayers' money. I'll bet they don't want to specificy how much either.

Quote:

"And finally we've put in place a communications fund to ensure that upgrades can be made for the future."

And back to the original quote - without touching taxpayers' money. Once again, unspecified amount.

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msolga wrote:

...Anyway, I reckon there must be positive ways of selling the benefits of far & decent health, education & other reforms to Australians, so it's not simply an argument about how much improved public services cost. Too often Labor's well intentioned efforts in these areas (like with Latham's education funding reforms) were dismissed as promoting"class warfare", etc. When really, it was is about creating a fairer & more cohesive society & reducing the growing gap between the haves & have nots in this country.

Just one more thought on this, while I'm rambling away here ...
Unless ALP politicians absolutely believe in the the policies & causes they espouse, then it's all just a waste of time. I'm heartily sick & tired of "career unionists" (as a somewhat disenchanted long-time unionist) with aspirations for political "careers". I'm also sick & tired of "celebrity" politicians whose recruitment to the ALP is seen as some sort of a "coup" by the leadership. Rolling Eyes

To sell change to the community you've got to be sincere, to completely believe in your cause. I really miss the Brian Howes, the Barry Jones's ... you know, the politicians with real vision & commitment.

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vikorr wrote:

http://www.news.com.au/sundaymail/story/0,23739,21442763-5003402,00.html

Quote:
FEDERAL Workplace Relations Minister Joe Hockey will not appear before an inquiry to deny claims he told a company to sack its workers and re-employ them on individual contracts.

Should TriStar be able to produce evidence of this meeting, this could turn very interesting.

I was reading about that this morning. I'm yet to hear a good tale about the IR reforms.

I believe that along with the dismal Iraq disaster, IR reforms are the straw that broke li'l Johnny Howler's back.

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vikorr wrote:

http://www.news.com.au/sundaymail/story/0,23739,21442763-5003402,00.html

Quote:
FEDERAL Workplace Relations Minister Joe Hockey will not appear before an inquiry to deny claims he told a company to sack its workers and re-employ them on individual contracts.

Should TriStar be able to produce evidence of this meeting, this could turn very interesting.

" .....Tristar managing director Cheng Hong told an industrial relations committee hearing last week that he met Mr Hockey and Office of Workplace Services (OWS) representatives on January 29 this year and that Mr Hockey had suggested making the company's workers redundant and then re-employing them on Australian Workplace Agreements (AWAs).

Mr Hockey said Mr Hong's allegations were untrue.

He said he had not yet been asked to appear before the IRC but said he would not do so if asked.

"I would be happy to provide a statement but the commission's job is to investigate the conduct of the company and the conduct of the company's directors," he said through a spokesman.

"I will not allow myself to be distracted from helping the Truster workers by a commission with no jurisdiction and set up by a state Labor government for political purposes." ...."

Jeeze, what extraordinary bad luck for Joe Hockey!

Of all the managers, in all the work sites in Oz, he had to meet that one!

However, to his credit, Joe will not be diverted from the honorable task of helping the workers in that company!

Very funny! Laughing

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Terrific to see IR back on the agenda in the media today! About time!:

Heat turned up on Howard over workplace laws
March 26, 2007/the AUSTRALIAN

ATTACKS on the governments workplace laws intensified today as Prime Minister John Howard issued a blunt declaration that he would not step away from his industrial relations reforms.

Mr Howard vowed to stand firm amid claims a voter backlash figured heavily in the Liberal Party's poor performance at the NSW state election.

Family First Senator Steve Fielding said today he would introduce legislation this week to amend workplace laws to guarantee workers public holidays, meal breaks and penalty rates as well as redundancy entitlements.

Fielding said Australian workers and their families were suffering under the government's Work Choices legislation.

"There is also nothing in the new laws that stop employers requiring workers on agreement or contracts to work seven days a week without getting penalty rates or overtime," he said.

Labor stepped up its assault on the new laws today in Question Time ahead of the first anniversary of the legislation tomorrow.

"Working families are rightly saying to themselves 'if the economy is so strong, why has Mr Howard put in place laws that could hurt me and my family?" Labor Deputy Opposition Leader Mr Julia Gillard said.

Ms Gillard said voters faced a stark choice at the election. ... <cont>

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21445575-601,00.html

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Howler says he's standing firm on his IR reforms.

Seems he doesn't realise that his goose is already cooked.

Rolling Eyes

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He thinks this makes him impressive with the business community. (Just in case they're contemplating the outrageous notion that Labor might be half OK!) And obviously any other approach than JH's would not be "responsible economic management"! :wink:

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Good points, Msolga. I recall promising you a pic of Rudd's family home.

I was back in that neighbourhood today, doing some touchups on my last contract.

Here's the place Kevin Rudd grew up in.

http://gallery.whatpissesyouoff.com/data/500/Rudd_home.jpg

His sister was out at the time. Might catch up with her later. :wink:

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Interesting debate on IR & AWAs today on The World Today (ABC radio), between Julia Gillard & Joe Hockey. Julia won, hands down. I think Joe Hockey might be out of his depth in this portfolio. There's an audio link to the debate, contained in the link to this article, at the bottom of this post. See what you think.:

Last Update: Monday, March 26, 2007. 3:00pm (AEST)

IR laws hurting families, says Labor

Labor has attacked the Federal Government's defence of its industrial relations reforms.

Tomorrow is the first anniversary of the introduction of the WorkChoices legislation and questions on industrial relations have dominated Question Time.

The Government points to 260,000 jobs it says have been created in the first year of WorkChoices.

The Liberal MP for the marginal seat of Bass, Michael Ferguson, says there is nothing to fear in Labor's talk of an electoral backlash.

"The voters aren't stupid and John Howard has secured the Australian economy and that's been achieved with reforms, including WorkChoices," he said.

But Labor's Julia Gillard says that argument does not stand up.

"Working families are rightly saying to themselves 'if the economy is so strong, why has Mr Howard put in place laws that could hurt me and my family?'" she said.

Ms Gillard says voters face a stark choice at the election.

The Prime Minister says 70 per cent of Labor's frontbench are former union officials and he says they are only interested in increasing union power.

"The individual worker is doing well under this Government, what is not doing well under this Government is the collective called union bosses, and that is why the union movement is hurling a $30 million campaign against the Coalition Government," he said.

Meanwhile, Workplace Relations Minister Joe Hockey says the Government is looking to release updated statistics that will reveal the truth about the impact of Australian Workplace Agreements on workers conditions.

Labor has accused the Government of hiding information that shows workers are worse off under Australian Workplace Agreements.

But Mr Hockey says the statistics currently available are open to misinterpretation. ... <cont>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1881714.htm

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Thanks for the pic, Builder.

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msolga wrote:

Thanks for the pic, Builder.

No probs. I might add that I was working for a couple that are well respected by all the plebs in Rudd's neighbourhood, and not one bad word was spoken of him, or his mother.

In fact, only glowing terms were used to describe his family.

Perhaps I should film his neighbours for a documentary on his early childhood?

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Builder wrote:

Perhaps I should film his neighbours for a documentary on his early childhood?

It'd be an interesting idea, but you don't suppose his sister would mind her neighbours being interviewed? Privacy & all that... or the photograph of her house being published online? Just a thought ...

You sound as thought you've taken a real shine to them, Builder. Smile

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