The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

Last Update: Monday, February 19, 2007. 5:14pm (AEDT)

PM bolsters Iraq instructor commitment

Prime Minister John Howard has confirmed the Government will send up to 70 more military trainers to Iraq within the next four months.

Mr Howard made the announcement in Perth ahead of Wednesday's federal Cabinet meeting.

The Prime Minister says the United States did not make a specific request for the additional trainers.

He says the increase is necessary in order to help Iraq stand on its own feet and is not ruling out sending more troops to Afghanistan.

Mr Howard also used the announcement to attack Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd's position on extra troop deployments.

"I think it's an amazing contradiction that Mr Rudd should in the one breath say we should all get out and let the Iraqis look after it and we turn around and try and do something to help them look after it and he's against that as well," Mr Howard said.

"It's just typical of him walking both sides of the street."

Earlier today, Mr Rudd said he did not support the deployment of more military trainers to Iraq.

Mr Rudd said every type of combat force should come home.

"Our policy on Iraq is clear cut," he said.

"Our troops have been there for four years now and our policy is our combat forces should come home and secondly there should be no more troops sent, no additional troops sent, including the category you just mentioned."

Meanwhile, Greens leader Bob Brown says the increased deployment of Australian military trainers to Iraq is a terrible decision.

"This is John Howard totally out of touch with Australian sentiment on Iraq and really misusing the limited military wherewithal of this country which should be deployed in our region and not at the service of the Bush Administration," Senator Brown said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1851543.htm

The Cheney visit couldn't possibly have anything to do with this, could it? :wink: :

predictions......

Tin Tin in a Landslide.

Oz out of iraq by April 2008

Iraqi national security forces training in OZ soon therafter.

Yes!

Wouldn't it be fabulous if this JH nightmare was nearly over, dadpad!

Good morning! I did not respond to msolga's comment about legal/illegal immigration to the US. I didn't want to sidetrack the Ausiness of this thread. Suffice it to say (and I can probably source this if pressed) that there are some 10 million illegals out of a total population of 300 million. Are they working at jobs that no one else wants for the pay being offered? Yes. Is it a living wage? No, not if a living wage means something other than a family of four or four guys living in a cheap motel room. Is it a better life than staying in their home country? Probably it is but I have never had the experience.

Back now to the most recent posts. Cheney going hunting with Howard? That was funny.

Good morning & thanks for your response, RJH.

"Illegals" everywhere appear to have a really tough time of it, don't they? Whatever happened to compassion? Sigh.

I hope those two, on a possible hunting trip, don't have any unfortunate "accidents". Mr Cheney does appear a wee bit accident prone?

Nice to have a bit of hope in Oz! It's been a long, long time since the last bit of it! Fasten seat belts in anticipation of some wild Lib smear campaigns. Along the lines of: you'll lose your house, your home & your job, everything, if you vote Labor! Interest rates will go through the ceiling! Etc, etc, etc ..... JH can be a very nasty fighter when the chips are down!

Interesting article from the AGE.:

It's time to take the blinkers off
Dennis Altman
February 21, 2007/the AGE



Vice-President Dick Cheney's visit is a good opportunity to reflect on the American alliance and why it has become so central a tenet of faith for successive Australian governments. .......


.....Beyond specific policies, where increasingly the President of the United States is clearly acting against the majority view of his own citizenry, the danger is that Australians do not have the ability to see the world with our own eyes. The world is full of democratic states as much opposed to terrorism as Australia, but which have not found it necessary to sign up to the evangelical language of the US Administration. Yet images of the world come to us almost unmediated from British and American television - ironically SBS News' greater coverage of the international owes much to feeds from American television reportage - so we ignore the way in which the adventures in Iraq are perceived in, say, Brazil, Malaysia or Germany.

It is absurd that Australian politicians are required to prove their patriotism by constantly proclaiming their support of the American alliance. Nations make alliances for convenience, and the US will support Australia because it is in its national interest, not because our Prime Minister goes to presidential barbecues. Conservatives remind us that we owe gratitude to the Americans for WWII, but they came to Australia's defence after Pearl Harbor was bombed, not because we were threatened.

Nor are Australia's interests synonymous with those of the US. America is the world's dominant power, and will pursue its self-interest ruthlessly. Australia is at best a middle-sized power, with far greater ambitions to strut the world stage than is good for us, and is part of a region where few states and societies see the world as does Washington. The Howard Government will claim that our regional relationships remain strong, but this ignores the damage over time by the perception that Australia is no more than a willing puppet of the US.

History and a common language ensure that there are close ties to the US. But these do not require us to support all of its ventures internationally. The Prime Minister seeks to reduce the debate about our presence in Iraq to one of "not ratting on our mates". ......

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/time-to-take-blinkers-off/2007/02/20/1171733757384.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Hi Msgola

Was missing from this thread for a few days. Thanks for your replies. As I said, each of those topics could be threads in themselves.

I personally don't have a problem with accepting more refugees, though I do think the government needs control over the numbers entering the country. However, I do think (a current belief of mine) that we should place restrictions on where refugees are able to settle for the first 5 (or so) years of their time in Australia. Reason for that - so they don't settle into Enclaves where they will never get to know Australia, and it's culture (and no, this isn't a recent belief - it's a thought I had before people started changing their mind on multi-culturalism).

Back to current politics - Rudd's honeymoon certainly shows no sign of abating, and he seems to be outmanouvering Howard on a number of issues. The upcoming big one (outmanouvre that is) looks like being water - it seems the State Premiers may leave Howard with a great deal of egg on his face (over his Murray-Darling scheme), while co-operating with Rudd (so that Howard can't say they aren't doing anything about water).

I was, until fairly recently, sure that Howard was saving some really good amunition to use against Rudd, until late in the election campaign (as he has done against opposition leaders at the last few elections), but his fumble footing in recent times is starting to cast doubts on this - though surely, as he's used said tactic a number of times, there must be somethign similar in store.

Evening, vikkor

I won't write much in response to your post tonight. I'm feeling a bit tired & knocked about by the heat. It's more like Brisbane or Cairns than what we're used to down here. Knocks you around something awful! :wink:

Oh my, I almost felt sorry for JH & Alexander today. The conniptions they were going through in response to Blair's announcement of British troop withdrawals! Tying themselves up in knots! What timing, after all that carry-on in parliament last week about the alliance, the Obama gaff, then Howard's announcement of more troops this week! This is my favourite line, from Alexander:

Australia, UK on same page on Iraq: Downer

Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer says the attitude of the British Government towards troop withdrawal from Iraq is identical to that of the Australian Government.

....Mr Downer has told the ABC's 7.30 Report program the British decision is based on an assessment of the changing security conditions in the region.

He says any future Australian decision to withdraw troops will be based on the same assessment.

"We believe that withdrawal should be conditions-based, not time-based," Mr Downer said. ... <cont>

Nice try, Alexander!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1853629.htm

Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear!
Poor ol' JH!
Just can't win a trick!:

Howard rules out troop withdrawal
February 21, 2007 - 7:20PM/SMH

A defiant Prime Minister John Howard today ruled out a withdrawal of Australian troops from Iraq as he played down the importance of Britain's pullout plan.

The Australian government today put a positive spin on Britain's decision to start cutting its force of 7,100 troops, arguing it was because security had improved in their stronghold around Basra, in southern Iraq.

Mr Howard has spent weeks lashing Labor over its plan to begin withdrawing Australian troops from Iraq - only to have one of the original coalition war partners now do the same thing.

Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd challenged Mr Howard to follow the British lead. .. <cont>

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/howard-rules-out-troop-withdrawal/2007/02/21/1171733816988.html

go to bed you naughty girl!

I have no choice, dadpad.
Stuffed! This humidity is really something!

Off to bed with you, too!

Night night.

Quite cool here in comparison to the last couple of nights.

I'll be up for a bit as this is one of the few times i can get a good run on my computer (teenage children)

9:30 am Thursday morning. Are you still at it, dadpad? :wink:
Bloody teenagers! They'll still be sleeping.

TinTin exploiting the obvious Howard/Downer inconsistencies:

Last Update: Thursday, February 22, 2007. 7:06am (AEDT)

Govt policy on Iraq inconsistent: Rudd

Federal Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd has attacked Prime Minister John Howard for supporting the British troop reduction from Iraq.

Overnight British Prime Minister Tony Blair announced plans to withdraw 1,600 troops from Iraq.

Mr Howard says Britain's actions are justified because conditions in southern Iraq have improved.

But speaking on ABC TV's Lateline program, Mr Rudd says Australian troops are in the same region and Mr Howard cannot have it both ways.

"My action - according to Mr Howard - is a victory to terrorists, but Mr Blair's action is somehow entirely consistent with Australian Government policy," he said.

Mr Rudd says Mr Howard needs to explain the difference.

"What is my exit strategy for Iraq? I've made it very plain," he said.

"My challenge to Mr Howard is, what is yours for winning this war and what are your benchmarks for success in terms of getting out. ... <cont>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1853697.htm

And following the British announcement, did you know that overnight the Danish government declared its intention to pull out its 450 troops out of Iraq? This "coalition" is looking wobblier by the minute!