dadpad wrote:what is lacking is leadership.
No-one wants to do anything because of the high risk of failure.
as Hawthorn coach Allen Jeans once said at 3/4 time.
Dont think, DOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Just do something
So who should be leading, dadpad? The federal government? The NT government? What do they need to do to get the response
right? It's getting the right response that matters.
remove your mind from a remote outback aboriginal community. pretend this is happening in *shrug* Maldon or swanpool or........Timboon.
What would happen?
It really is very simple. Treat the children and other victims in exactly the same way as a is done in white anglo communities. All this b/s about culture and Political correctedness is stiffling action. those sort of things are only relevent when people are not being hurt.
community services and child protection are mostly state funded therefore NT state government should have a lead role.
Ban sales of alcohol on a community by communityor even person by person basis. In fact i'd be pretty hapy with restricted alcohol sales right across the country for everybody. Yeah I know prohibition did not work but rationing might. I hate excessive consumption of alcohol! Actually its drunks I hate.
I reckon there ought to be a drinkers licence with "L"s "P"s and a similar fine/licence removal system for transgressors as a car licence.
socceroooooooooossssssss.
I'm excited!
dadpad wrote:remove your mind from a remote outback aboriginal community. pretend this is happening in *shrug*
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/05/24/svCARTOON_gallery__470x327.jpg
What would happen?
It really is very simple. Treat the children and other victims in exactly the same way as a is done in white anglo communities. All this b/s about culture and Political correctedness is stiffling action. those sort of things are only relevent when people are not being hurt.
community services and child protection are mostly state funded therefore NT state government should have a lead role.
Ban sales of alcohol on a community by communityor even person by person basis. In fact i'd be pretty hapy with restricted alcohol sales right across the country for everybody. Yeah I know prohibition did not work but rationing might. I hate excessive consumption of alcohol! Actually its drunks I hate.
I reckon there ought to be a drinkers licence with "L"s "P"s and a similar fine/licence removal system for transgressors as a car licence.
socceroooooooooossssssss.
I'm excited!
That sounds really simple, dadpad. But can you
imagine what the reaction would be in Maldon or swanpool or........Timboon if you decided to treat them differently (re access to alcohol) compared to the rest of the country?
Hmm .... dunno that folk would accept being treated differently! (Even if it's
good for them!)
dadpad wrote:remove your mind from a remote outback aboriginal community. pretend this is happening in *shrug* Maldon or swanpool or........Timboon.
What would happen?
It really is very simple. Treat the children and other victims in exactly the same way as a is done in white anglo communities. All this b/s about culture and Political correctedness is stiffling action. those sort of things are only relevent when people are not being hurt.
community services and child protection are mostly state funded therefore NT state government should have a lead role.
Ban sales of alcohol on a community by communityor even person by person basis. In fact i'd be pretty hapy with restricted alcohol sales right across the country for everybody. Yeah I know prohibition did not work but rationing might. I hate excessive consumption of alcohol! Actually its drunks I hate.
I reckon there ought to be a drinkers licence with "L"s "P"s and a similar fine/licence removal system for transgressors as a car licence.
socceroooooooooossssssss.
I'm excited!
It's fucked in white Anglo communities too!!!!!
dadpad wrote:IF these sorts of crimes were happening in an anglo community such as above what would be happening? arrests would be made, children and families would be removed to safe environments.
But they
are happening in Anglo communities, dadpad. I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know it's not always as simple as this.
" arrests would be made, children and families would be removed to safe environments."
Bless the boy! Lord love him and his innocence!
But, yes, services are a bit better in urban areas.....
Hinge, I am inerested to see your comments on the stolen generation.....I had assumed the current common picture was quite unbalanced, but it would be great to hear more.
I think one barrier to vigorous unpicking of this abuse scab by police and welfare authorities is their awareness of how terribly underresourced and underskilled they if they open the floodgates......once terrible trauma is unpicked, it tends to start something of an avalanche....and heaven knows where the process leads, but it is likely to be very overwhelming for everyone concerned.
Crikey editorial:
3. Putting Aboriginal people in jail will achieve precisely ... nothing
Political commentator and former ALP insider Richard Farmer writes:
If there was a simple answer to the problems besetting many remote Aboriginal communities there would not be a problem. Thus the stern words of Acting Prime Minister Peter Costello in the House of Representatives this week should not be seen as a solution.
Costello called for tougher law enforcement and, in particular, he wants no “cultural defence” for rape or child abuse offenders. There had been, he said, a tendency to “go a bit soft on some of these things because there is a cultural sensitivity.”
At the Australian National University John Taylor has examined the available data on the people of Wadeye in the Northern Territory. He has tried to quantify current social and economic conditions for the purpose of establishing a baseline against which the impacts of policies designed to improve them might be subsequently measured. After looking at the material on the criminal justice system Mr Taylor reached the following conclusion:
Wadeye has the highest per capita juvenile offending rate in the Northern Territory with young people from Wadeye constituting a significant proportion of all those in detention.
The author discusses this phenomenon by examining data sources on reported offences, correctional services, custodial sentences and juvenile diversion.
The main thrust of research into underlying causes of recidivist criminal behaviour among Aboriginal youth in remote communities emphasises the futility of custody in circumstances where the normal progression from school to paid work is the exception rather than the rule.
So there we have it. Mr Costello wants to put more people in jail for longer and those policies will achieve precisely nothing. Providing the solution was not the role of Mr Taylor's baseline study but he did point to other research showing “if an individual's most defining experience of growing up is primarily about custody (and one might add gang allegiance in the case of Wadeye), then it would seem unlikely that such an experience would equip young males for lives outside of criminal subcultures.”
The research he quoted called for a reconsideration of expenditure involved in incarceration in favour of facilitating less destructive modes of growing up. To this extent, continued poor school attendance and failure to engage youth economically "to satisfy the need for more than just boredom and marginalisation", represent clear opportunity costs to both government and the regional community.
dlowan wrote:
There may well NOT be medical or "genetic" evidence, Hinge.....it depends upon the type of abuse, and, where there MIGHT be physical evidence, the gap between episodes of abuse and forensic medical assessment.
Prosecution is exceedingly rare for non indigenous offenders, too.
Oh. Bin watching too much CSI.
The issue of victims not wanting to testify is a real problem though. A work colleague was on a jury for a domestic violence case and the victim sat on the stand and wouldn't answer any questions. From her perspective she had to go back and live in that small community, any punishment her attacker received would be perceived as her doing.
A lot of my knowledge of this stuff comes from Mrs Hinge, who is passionate about, and despairing of, indigenous affairs.
Her current theory about why this is suddenly news is that it will be an election issue for the Libs - they will say they will close down dysfunctional remote aboriginal communities (because they will cost too much to provide 'Maldon'-level services to) but after the election they will change their minds using a NIMBY argument (ie do you want housing commission homes in your suburb with these people in them?) and that the cost would be prohibitive. A couple of communities will be closed (where it will help mining).
The disingenousness of the media and the fed gov are painful. There was a wee kerfuffle about a guy who had a very short sentence for abusing a child in NT. Media ragdolls Claire Martin - but the guy was sentence under the former Liberal territory govt, the same govt that had the 'three strikes, mandatory sentencing laws' which meant you could get more jail time for stealing a pencil than for rape. At least Martin scrapped that right away.
On the bright side, did anyone watch SBS 7.30 on Wednesday night? That's the sort of indigenous story that gives you a sense of the good in the community. There's another one on next wed, give it a burl if you want positive media images.
More later.
Did anyone catch Beazles grab last night? It would have been great if he had any sense of comedic timing. But his waffle style buried it and I don't think the media got it. He said,
'On his next visit to Australia, John Howard should...'
Interesting article from my morning paper:
Rights of indigenous women and children must come first
By Larissa Behrendt
Larissa Behrendt is professor of law and director of research at the Jumbunna Indigenous House of Learning, University of Technology, Sydney. This is an edited extract of her Alice Tay Memorial Lecture, delivered last week at the Australian National University, Canberra.
May 26, 2006/the AGE
THERE is much evidence to support the assertion that stereotypes of Aboriginal women as bad mothers and promiscuous women exacerbate their treatment in court. The reliance by perpetrators of sexual violence on what has been termed a "customary law" defence has raised arguments from the bar table, accepted by the bench, that rape in Aboriginal culture is not treated as seriously as it is in Western culture.
In December last year, the Northern Territory Court of Criminal Appeal increased the sentence of an Aboriginal elder who had raped a 14-year-old Aboriginal girl. During the trial the defence had argued that the man had not been aware of the fact that it was against the laws of the NT to rape a woman, and instead the judge had decided that the man had honestly believed that he was entitled, under customary law, to take her as a wife and to sodomise her. He had given a one-month prison sentence in the first instance and this was increased to three years and 11 months, with 18 months minimum to serve, by the appeal. ... <cont>
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/rights-of-indigenous-women-and-children-must-come-first/2006/05/25/1148524814839.html
I hope I'm not distracting attention from this discussion, but I just had to say something about the sorry state of affairs in East Timor. And our renewed involvement there. How very disappointing & distressing for the East Tomorese!:
Diggers pour into war zone
May 26, 2006 - 9:10AM
The AGE
Australian troops have begun taking control of key buildings and installations East Timor's capital, Dili, sealing off the city's airport as troops continue to arrive. .... <cont>
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/diggers-pour-into-war-zone/2006/05/26/1148524848685.html
Anarchy, chaos take hold of capital
Mark Dodd, Dili
May 26, 2006/ the AUSTRALIAN
FOR the frightened residents of East Timor, seeking refuge in homes, schools and churches, Australian forces have arrived in the nick of time.
The streets of Dili surrendered to anarchy yesterday as days of bloody violence, the worst since independence, reached a confusing, chaotic crescendo.
Police battled gangs of street hoodlums, soldiers waged war on the police and, in the hills above Dili, shots rang out as police battled police and soldiers fought soldiers.
In a particularly bloody incident close to the UN compound, a deranged soldier starting shooting at police after UN officers had tried to broker a peace deal between the two sides. ... <cont>
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19259973-601,00.html
hingehead wrote:'On his next visit to Australia, John Howard should...'
Apparently JH has spent one whole year (out of his 10 as PM) travelling the world. Must have a helluva lot of frequent flyer points!
The SBS cameraman who made the news said on the J's that when he was there in 1999 an exiting Indonesian told him that it (ET) would all fall apart soon. Apparently there have been centuries of racial tensions (Melanesian v non-Melanesian) there, utilised and fomented by the Portugese colonisers as a means to 'divide and conquer' (think France, Rwanda, hutu and tutsi).
I'm not so sure whether that's underlying it or it's just their PM - who they really can't stand.
Got a friend there - waiting to get an email reply....
Please do pass on what he has to say when he contacts you, hinge.
A Crikey contributor on East Timor:
2. The source of Timorese anger (and where is the new PM?)
Samantha Roberts, East Timor resident and co-author of Dili-dallying, writes:
I have an unanswered question: where has the President been throughout this whole sad sorry saga? He has been conspicuously absent ever since the Fretilin Party Congress. Is he in ill health? Does anybody out there know? There has been talk of Jose Ramos-Horta nominating for the presidency if Xanana Gusmao doesn't, however to me it seems he has already assumed the president's duties!
Meanwhile, the problem as I see it with the government of Timor is that it has focused on external or macro issues to the detriment of internal and micro issues. In my estimation, it has done well and continues to do so at the macro level. However, the glaring exception is its lack of willingness to seek justice from Indonesia for the brutal 24-year occupation of Timor. This important exception feeds into the internal and micro issues that the government has neglected.
Neglected, I believe, because most of the government are out of touch with ordinary Timorese concerns. Why? Because most of them didn't live in Timor during the 24-year occupation and despite the fact that many worked tirelessly to obtain Timor's independence, it meant that their focus became international. This, combined with their high levels of education, has set them apart from the ordinary Timorese, most of whom are illiterate, poor and have little idea about the world outside their village, yet alone this small half-island's boundaries. Their concerns are immediate: where to get enough food and water today to feed their family, and access to health and education. Many also want justice from Indonesia, good roads and to see the fruits of their government's work and words as actual impacts in their everyday lives. If the ordinary people had these things, I don't think the ethnic divide we now are seeing would have gathered much momentum.
The second problem confronting the government is the way the F-FDTL (East Timor's defence forces, FALINTIL-Forcas de Defesa de Timor-Leste) and the PNTL (Timorese police) were formed and the continuing lack of rules and procedures concerning them, particularly the former. The higher-ranking officers of the F-FDTL are almost universally from the east and the PNTL is full of people from the west. In a fledgling society such as Timor, its military and police should not be so ethnically divided. This leaves the two security forces open to exploitation and genuine charges of discrimination within their ranks. Political manipulation and exploitation is a particular worry.
When this happens, those angry unemployed young men who belong to martial arts groups are also likely to get in on the act. Thus, tensions rise, different groups take action, and the situation deteriorates rapidly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And on the aboriginal abuse stuff:
The 25 reports on Aboriginal Australia that line government bookshelves
As more allegations about the state of Aboriginal living conditions have emerged in recent weeks, we're constantly told about the numerous reports over recent decades highlighting the state of Aboriginal Australia that have been ignored or filed away. How many reports, we wondered, and what did they say? Here's a Crikey list of at least 25 government or UN reports on the subject:
1977: Final report on alcohol problems of Aboriginals, an Australian Parliamentary Report, is released.
1979: Aboriginal Health, a report by the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs (HRSCAA), is released. It notes that the "standard of health of Aborigines was still far lower than the majority of Australians" and that "little progress had been made in raising it". And its chairman Philip Ruddock notes: "When innumerable reports on the poor state of Aboriginal health are released there are expressions of shock or surprise and outraged cries for immediate action. However ... the appalling state of Aboriginal health is soon forgotten until another report is released."
1980: The Program Effectiveness Report, an internal Commonwealth Government report (never publicly released) considers Indigenous involvement in Aboriginal health policy development, the introduction of specific Indigenous health initiatives and the existing arrangements for funding and administration of Indigenous health.
1981: The Commonwealth Government initiates a $50 million five-year Aboriginal Public Health Improvement Program focusing on unsatisfactory environmental conditions associated with inadequate water, sewerage and power systems.
Royal Commission Report of Inquiry into the death of Bruce Thomas Leslie, the Aboriginal man who was wrongly diagnosed as being drunk by ambulance officers and was taken to Tamworth Police Station. An X-Ray later showed he in fact had a fractured skull. Leslie died of a brain haemorrhage.
1982: Strategies to help overcome the problems of Aboriginal town camps, an HRSCAA report, is released.
A report looking at the disproportionate number of Aboriginal people charged with minor offences is released by the SA Office of Crime Statistics releases. Findings include the fact that more than 58% of all defendants appearing on drunkenness, vagrancy, offensive behaviour and liquor-related charges in courts outside the Adelaide metropolitan area are Aborigines, even though this racial group constitutes less than 2% of the rural population.
1988: Australia has violated the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, according to a United Nations official sent to Australia to investigate the conditions of Aborigines.
1989: A National Aboriginal Health Strategy, the landmark final report of the National Aboriginal Health Strategy Working Party (NAHSWP), is presented to the Joint Ministerial Forum. It determines primary health care is one of the key strategies for addressing Aboriginal health disadvantage and identifies the need to develop more collaborative health service planning processes. It also devotes a chapter to the impact of substance abuse.
1991: The final report of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody (RCADC), which investigated 99 deaths of Aboriginals in custody over a nine-year period, is released. It finds that the disproportionate rate at which Aboriginal people are arrested was the major and most immediate cause of these deaths, and also reveals a history of racism and state control of Indigenous communities. It makes 339 recommendations.
The Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission (HREOC) launches the National Inquiry into Racist Violence, which concludes that racist violence against Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders is endemic, nationwide and very severe.
1992: The Commonwealth Government announces a $150 million five-year funding package, principally for the establishment of Aboriginal-controlled drug and alcohol services.
1993: Health facilities available for Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders should be completely revamped, according to a report tabled in Federal Parliament. The report, by the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health Policy Unit and the Health Department, finds that Aboriginal mortality is 3-4 times than the rest of the community, that mortality rates from pneumonia are ten times higher than of the population as a whole and that mortality rates from diabetes are nine times that of the population as a whole.
1994 : A National Aboriginal Health Strategy: An Evaluation finds that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders face the health hazards of a hostile and inadequate physical environment (contaminated water, poor sanitation, and unsafe housing, transport and work conditions) and argues that "setting up committees will resolve nothing" – what is needed is a bold and clear national initiative that will "step over the shambles" of previous efforts.
The Report to the National Committee to Defend Black Rights: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Custodial Deaths Between May 1989 and January 1994 is released, finding that the the national rate of Aboriginal custodial deaths has not decreased and that many of those who have died have done so because key areas of reform highlighted by the RCIADIC have not taken place.
1995: The Alcohol Report: Race Discrimination, Human Rights and the Distribution of Alcohol exposes alcohol misuse and its impact on Aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory and highlights the lack of consultation between the NT Liquor Commission and Indigenous communities, recommending amendments to the Liquor Act (1978) to allow Aboriginal communities more control over the provision of alcohol to their communities.
1996: The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health and Welfare Information Unit (ATSIHWIU) undertakes a review to develop a National Plan for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health Information.
1997: The Health and Welfare of Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples – a joint publication of the Australian Bureau of Statistics and the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare – reveals that "almost four in ten Indigenous households were estimated to have either insufficient income to meet basic needs (even before taking housing into account), or not enough income to afford adequate housing."
1998: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health Program, a National Audit Office performance audit of the Department of Health and Aged Care, reports that the life expectancy at birth of Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders is 15-20 years lower than all Australians, that for all causes of death combined there were 3.5-4 times more deaths than expected among Indigenous people, and that Indigenous people are 2-3 times more likely to be hospitalised.
1999: National Aboriginal Health Strategy – delivery of housing and infrastructure to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, a National Audit Office performance audit of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission, reports that a lack of basic facilities, such as access to adequate housing, water and waste removal, is contributing to the high morbidity rate of Indigenous Australians and that ATSIC was not administering the housing program in a timely, costly or efficient manner.
2000: Health is life, the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Family and Community Affairs final report on Indigenous health issues, finds a "lack of clear delineation of responsibility for Indigenous health," and that the parties, particularly the States, indulge "wherever possible" in shifting the onus for payment to another sector and that "the lack of any real efforts to integrate community involvement into the planning and delivery of health and related services" has been been one of the biggest barriers to progress.
The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, in a report on Australia's treatment of its Indigenous population, notes that "mandatory sentencing schemes appear to target offences that are committed disproportionately by indigenous Australians" in Western Australia and the Northern Territory and remains concerned by "the extent of the continuing discrimination faced by indigenous Australians in the enjoyment of their economic, social and cultural rights". Foreign Minister Alexander Downer's responds: "We won't cop it any longer. We are a democratically elected government in one of the most liberal and democratic countries you will find on Earth. And if a United Nations committee wants to play domestic politics here in Australia, then it will end up with a bloody nose."
2001: The draft National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health Strategy is released by the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health Council, recommending greater resources be deployed on the issues of Aboriginal substance misuse, community violence and suicide. It notes that many of these issues were raised in the National Aboriginal Health Strategy (1989) but "there was insufficient commitment to action following the 1989 strategy".
2002: The NHMRC Road Map: a strategic framework for improving Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health through research is released, recommending that research needs to be targeted towards the major causes and risks of poor health for Indigenous Australians – specifically chronic diseases, injury (including assault and suicide), mental health, drug and alcohol abuse, communicable diseases and maternal and child health.
2003: The 4th edition of the biennial report The health and welfare of Australia's Indigenous Peoples 2003, is published by the ABS and the AIHW.
2004: A Canadian study reports that the quality of life of Australian Aborigines is the second worst in the world, while the general Australian population ranks fourth best in the world.
2005: The Australian government appears again before the UN Committee for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, which expresses serious concern about the abolition of ATSIC, the lack of genuine progress in native title, the continuing over-representation of Indigenous peoples in prisons and the extreme inequities between Indigenous peoples and others in the areas of employment, housing, health, education and income.
The biennial report from the ABS and AIHW shows that "overall, estimated expenditure on health services provided to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples during 2001-02 was $3,901 per person –18% higher than the estimated expenditure on services delivered to non-Indigenous Australians – which was due to high rates of care for Aboriginal people "involving dialysis and hospitalisations for other potentially preventable chronic conditions".
For further information see the Indigenous health policy timeline at Australian Indigenous HealthInfoNet.
List compiled by Marika Webb-Pullman, Sophie Vorrath and Jane Nethercote
Yes! I don't know that Bleak is actually calling for army intervention to sort out Wabeye's (extremely troubled outback aboriginal community).. problems, but some serious help is definitely called for! If we can help out East Timor, we can do it for our own, surely ....?
Crikey on aboriginal ideas:
3. Chaney on the Aboriginal crisis: seven steps that could work
Fred Chaney – director of Reconciliation Australia, a deputy president of the National Native Title Tribunal and former Liberal Minister for Aboriginal Affairs between 1978 and 1980 – writes:
Assume civil order is restored wherever Aboriginal people reside and governments really want to address the underlying problems. What do we know about what works and what doesn't in remote communities?
Well, we know that episodic fly-in-fly-out bureaucratic interventions don't work. Much of the existing education system doesn't work. Welfare is corrosive, a discovery publicised by Ian Viner as Minister for Aboriginal Affairs as long ago as 1977. Expecting ill-educated and financially under resourced communities to provide all their own essential services hasn't worked. Nor has governments and their bureaucracies telling Aboriginals what to do.
On the other hand, giving people a say in their own affairs has provided some bright spots. Compare Pilbara and Ord developments in the 1960s, and more recent activity in those areas, and you see Aboriginal involvement in business development, education and employment. Compare the opening of the Argyle Diamond Mine in 1980 with now, when ADM has achieved 25% Aboriginal employment. Recognition of Aboriginal rights to land underlies these positive changes.
Employment does change things. The East Kimberley experience since ADM lifted employment is that locals are buying houses and capital goods when they get a job.
Some schools such as Kalkaringi (Wave Hill), Thursday Island, Karatha, Cherbourg, Clontarf, and Kununurra have shown that leadership, additional commitment by staff and students, and focused use of additional resources give Aboriginal kids a real chance at equal life opportunities.
Local control of resources helps. Centrally administered programs result in energy being wasted in serving the program rather than the program serving the community.
So what should we do?
In remote areas it is essential to restore civil order. Recent police presences in a number of remote communities has proved positive.
Governments should take full responsibility for essential services. Obviously use local labour as much as possible (through real jobs), but maintain government responsibility.
Find out what the locals want to achieve and get behind any positive local initiative.
Have trained, accountable people on site.
Be aware of shifting problems. Balgo is probably better now because the drinkers are in Halls Creek. Stop them drinking in Halls Creek and watch out Kununurra and Fitzroy Crossing.
Provide safe, supervised camping facilities in the towns around the desert as people will be visiting from the desert for many years.
Enforce school attendance and bring the generality of schools up to best practice. This is the only way to ensure Aboriginal people have a long term future where they have purposeful lives and equal opportunities to participate in what Australia offers most of its people.
