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The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 02:18 am
Oh good!

I was wanting a discussion of this, but wrried about it not being on task.


I am sooo torn re this stuff.

Here are a few random thoughts, any of which could be wrong.

On the one hand, the abuse in aboriginal communities needs to be exposed....anyone in either aboriginal affairs, or DV/child protection has known about it for years.

Thing is, governments do not know what the hell to do, and are reluctant to fund, the bastids. Try convincing treasurers of the importance of dealing with abuse, at least in my state!


Welfare bodies, which operationalized the stolen generation, are **** scared of doing the wrong thing, and are often paralysed.

The aboriginal community appears split........to name it is racism or encouraging racism/to not name it is furthering abuse.

Aboriginal workers seem paralysed by their affiliations and by the hatred aimed at them by other affiliations, goddess help them.

The elders, who should be leading, are often amongst those committing the abuse. People when interviewed will not speak out.

Tentatively, I think this bloodletting may be good.....it WILL be used by racists against aboriginal people, and will cause great distress...but, it reminds me of the whit ecommunity having to begin to face this 25 years ago, then the churches....if it is not publicised, then no funding will come.


IF funding can do any good....
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 02:21 am
msolga wrote:
No, I didn't watch Sunday, hinge. (I tend to get most of my info from the print media & radio. Habit, I guess.)

But perhaps others saw it & can comment?

The earlier reports from Claire Martin were very distressing indeed. What can you say? Confused Sad (And I'm by no means suggesting that sexual (& other) abuse of small children is exclusive aboriginal territory!) But what can a person living in an urban setting at the other end of the continent make of her claims of sexual abuse of children as young as seven months by adult male members of their own (aboriginal) communities? I felt (from what I saw, read & heard in the media) that she was sincere & rather at the end of her tether with her responsibilities toward the aboriginal people in her care. I saw her decision to "go public" as a plea for help. I felt that Mal Brough ( the federal minister with responsibility for aboriginal affairs) seemed to jump on the "outraged bandwagon" very readily .... an opportunity for a bit of pious grand-standing. Ugh.
But really, this whole issue has taught me that we need to know a lot more about "life as it really is" in these remote aboriginal communities, the problems faced, possible solutions ..... This can't go on. But who do you believe? If you have any insights that might enlighten, I'd be grateful to read them ...



Babies get abused by whites, too.



Thing is, violence and subsance abuse is so rife in some aboriginal communities it is out of control.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 02:22 am
Amigo wrote:
msolga, If our governments are going to globalise for the worst.

Then the people must globalise for the best. It's our right and duty.

(you might already know that, I just thought of it right now Smile )


Yes, exactly, Amigo!

And I bloody-well want a vote in who actually does the governing!!

Not by a bunch of super powerful corporations with nothing but $$$$ on their minds, thank you very much! Evil or Very Mad
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 02:30 am
dlowan wrote:

Babies get abused by whites, too.


I know, Deb. I said as much, in my post responding to hinge which you quoted.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 02:56 am
Oh boy....what is it with A2k tonight? A full moon or something round here?





I am sure you do know, Msolga, but many who may read this, and know nothing of child abuse generally, may not know that.

I think it is not something the general community is very aware of.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 03:10 am
dlowan wrote:
Oh boy....what is it with A2k tonight? A full moon or something round here?





I am sure you do know, Msolga, but many who may read this, and know nothing of child abuse generally, may not know that.

I think it is not something the general community is very aware of.



I said in my response to hinge that I felt rather like a confused urban person, in an urban society, at the other end of the continent. I thought hinge wanted to discuss the political implications of this issue further. And I thought that you did, too, Deb. I would truly welcome the insight that you both might have to offer. However, if this is not exactly a good idea, I accept that. I bow to your judgement. You know far better than me about these things.
But I honestly don't know what this has to do with full moons & such .... Confused
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 03:28 am
Msolga, I have no idea what you mean about my not thinking it a good idea. Have you read the post I made before the one you commented on? I think it is a very good idea, and said I had hoped to discuss it.

Here it is again, if you missed it:

dlowan wrote:
Oh good!

I was wanting a discussion of this, but wrried about it not being on task.


I am sooo torn re this stuff.

Here are a few random thoughts, any of which could be wrong.

On the one hand, the abuse in aboriginal communities needs to be exposed....anyone in either aboriginal affairs, or DV/child protection has known about it for years.

Thing is, governments do not know what the hell to do, and are reluctant to fund, the bastids. Try convincing treasurers of the importance of dealing with abuse, at least in my state!


Welfare bodies, which operationalized the stolen generation, are **** scared of doing the wrong thing, and are often paralysed.

The aboriginal community appears split........to name it is racism or encouraging racism/to not name it is furthering abuse.

Aboriginal workers seem paralysed by their affiliations and by the hatred aimed at them by other affiliations, goddess help them.

The elders, who should be leading, are often amongst those committing the abuse. People when interviewed will not speak out.

Tentatively, I think this bloodletting may be good.....it WILL be used by racists against aboriginal people, and will cause great distress...but, it reminds me of the whit ecommunity having to begin to face this 25 years ago, then the churches....if it is not publicised, then no funding will come.


IF funding can do any good....


Perhaps I misread your tone in your "I KNOW that" post? I thought you were cross and I was trying to explain why I reacted.

The "full moon" comment is a reference to the sturm and drang about the photos from A2k gatherings stuff that id happening in a couple of threads, with distressed people everywhere. You have posted on one of them, so I assumed you would understand.


This place is weird tonight, misunderstandings everywhere.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 03:38 am
dlowan wrote:
The "full moon" comment is a reference to the sturm and drang about the photos from A2k gatherings stuff that id happening in a couple of threads, with distressed people everywhere. You have posted on one of them, so I assumed you would understand.


Well, I'm not really sure what this has to do with this thread & this particular issue, but ...

No, I didn't miss your post, Deb. I was just a bit perplexed by how you responded to that post of mine, that's all. I responded to that.

Anyways ... <sigh> please do go ahead & talk about your insights into this issue. I'm happy to listen & learn from what you & hinge have to say.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 04:15 am
The reference was to misunderstandings and such appearing from nowhere.


I don't HAVE any insights, I don't think.


I just wanted to muddle along and try to nut it out..eg the issue of the publicity vs how people will use it for racist purposes, and I expressed my opinion on that...but I do not consider it informed.

I probably know a bit more than the average citizen about how bad it is, just because of where I work.

I suspect Hinge has the most useful stuff to say, and I am hoping he will post soon.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 10:02 am
I wonder if removing all the children from the influence of their communities and parents might be helpfull? You know, break the cycle of abuse.



oh! wait on............
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 04:32 pm
dadpad wrote:
I wonder if removing all the children from the influence of their communities and parents might be helpfull? You know, break the cycle of abuse.



oh! wait on............


Well that's exactly what's on the table dad - Noel Pearson floated it and Brough said it might be considered. - Well hey - we do it to urban white families (sometimes very wrongly). As Deb said, the welfare action people are very worried about creating another stolen generation.

Personally I'm against it, but, as Mrs Hinge says, a lot of the stolen generation are grateful for being stolen, and even many of those who resent it don't want to lose what they gained from the experience - they just want their culture as well. It's not black and white. No pun intended.


The lovely Mrs Hinge said a few weeks ago something was brewing and she wasn't sure what the end game might be, but she was uneasy. Now she thinks Brough let it slip. Close down communities because they're dysfunctional which she reads as close them down because they are too difficult to service and in many cases they occupy land which could be used for more profitable purposes - particularly the DOGIT communities in the Cape.

Armed with that thought I watch with interest JH's push for nuclear power, and the waste dump for Australia - wouldn't it be a convenient way to fight the NIMBY protests by putting the waste somewhere where it wasn't anyone's backyard?

As has been said the child abuse has been known about for years - I remember mentioning the two year old with syphillis a little while ago - why is it news now when the govt has done everything to hide indigenous affairs from the spotlight (close ATSIC, mainstream it's programs, refuse to cooperate with UN investigations into indigenous living standards and poopoo their findings) - they've got their pet Noel (who has a vision which the libs can coopt). Mrs Hinge smells an election issue, I smell media (PBL) in bed with the govt again.

Sorry I'm rambling but I've just remembered another thing - a lot of commentators said that criminal charges weren't laid because perpetrators hid behind culture. Crap-I-say. There wasn't the will to prosecute - it was too hard and they're only boongs. Definitely indigenous people are unwilling to testify against their elders, but if a child has been sexually abused there is genetic evidence sufficient make an eyewitness account redundant.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 May, 2006 05:41 am
hingehead wrote:
dadpad wrote:
I wonder if removing all the children from the influence of their communities and parents might be helpfull? You know, break the cycle of abuse.



oh! wait on............


Well that's exactly what's on the table dad - Noel Pearson floated it and Brough said it might be considered. - Well hey - we do it to urban white families (sometimes very wrongly). As Deb said, the welfare action people are very worried about creating another stolen generation.


If anyone has to be removed I'd prefer it was the offending blokes ... for a bit of serious rehab.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 May, 2006 04:17 pm
Good also to see the judges come out and try and water some sanity on the parliamentary headline grabbing.

1. Cultural law is not considered in sexual abuse and domestic violence cases.
2. Everyone has the right to have their background and situation taken into account in the judgement of the case.

It terrifies me that MPs can say 'We should do this!' and it sounds reasonable or desirable and people say 'Oh yes we should definitely do that!' in righteous indignation - even though we already do it and through ignorance on our part we don't realise that's already the case. My jury is still out whether the MPs are ignorant too - or just skilled in the manipulation of a pack of voters feeding from one media teet.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 May, 2006 01:20 am
It's certainly very confusing, hinge. I confess I'm a bit lost here. Given the very serious problems these communities are experiencing, where to for real solutions? (which, of course, cannot be delivered over-night!) Everybody & their dog seems to have something to recommend via the media about what should be done. It's easy to discount some theories (given the sources!), but as for the rest, who knows what's right? I just think it's very unfortunate we're looking for answers in the media. I hope a lot more is happening behind the scenes, in consultation with the residents of the communities.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 May, 2006 01:53 am
Wow! Interesting discussion.....you are freaking me out re the possible political skulduggery, Hinge!

Just a couple of points.....

"Sorry I'm rambling but I've just remembered another thing - a lot of commentators said that criminal charges weren't laid because perpetrators hid behind culture. Crap-I-say. There wasn't the will to prosecute - it was too hard and they're only boongs. Definitely indigenous people are unwilling to testify against their elders, but if a child has been sexually abused there is genetic evidence sufficient make an eyewitness account redundant."

There may well NOT be medical or "genetic" evidence, Hinge.....it depends upon the type of abuse, and, where there MIGHT be physical evidence, the gap between episodes of abuse and forensic medical assessment.


Prosecution is exceedingly rare for non indigenous offenders, too.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 May, 2006 01:54 am
msolga wrote:
It's certainly very confusing, hinge. I confess I'm a bit lost here. Given the very serious problems these communities are experiencing, where to for real solutions? (which, of course, cannot be delivered over-night!) Everybody & their dog seems to have something to recommend via the media about what should be done. It's easy to discount some theories (given the sources!), but as for the rest, who knows what's right? I just think it's very unfortunate we're looking for answers in the media. I hope a lot more is happening behind the scenes, in consultation with the residents of the communities.


Consultations are a dime a dozen.....what is lacking is funding and really good expertise.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 May, 2006 02:01 am
what is lacking is leadership.

No-one wants to do anything because of the high risk of failure.

as Hawthorn coach Allen Jeans once said at 3/4 time.

Dont think, DOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Just do something
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 May, 2006 02:04 am
dlowan wrote:
msolga wrote:
It's certainly very confusing, hinge. I confess I'm a bit lost here. Given the very serious problems these communities are experiencing, where to for real solutions? (which, of course, cannot be delivered over-night!) Everybody & their dog seems to have something to recommend via the media about what should be done. It's easy to discount some theories (given the sources!), but as for the rest, who knows what's right? I just think it's very unfortunate we're looking for answers in the media. I hope a lot more is happening behind the scenes, in consultation with the residents of the communities.


Consultations are a dime a dozen.....what is lacking is funding and really good expertise.


Yeah, I know that, Deb. I meant that I hoped that whoever's responsible for what happens next is actually listening to people in those communities. Consulting & talking with the ordinary people, not just the the "leaders" & the usual media commentators.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 May, 2006 02:14 am
How the cartoonists see the issue:

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/05/24/thursdaytoon_gallery__470x271,0.jpg
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 May, 2006 02:18 am
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/05/24/svCARTOON_gallery__470x327.jpg

.. & a few others I'd rather not send, sorry. Sad
0 Replies
 
 

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