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WMD and The True Basis of Operation Iraqi Freedom

 
 
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 05:41 pm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,113 • Replies: 17
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dhudlud37
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 05:54 pm
Iraqi Documents Show Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties

Scott Wheeler, CNSNews.com
Monday, Oct. 4, 2004

Iraqi intelligence documents, confiscated by U.S. forces and obtained by CNSNews.com, show numerous efforts by Saddam Hussein's regime to work with some of the world's most notorious terror organizations, including al-Qaida, to target Americans.

The documents demonstrate that Saddam's government possessed mustard gas and anthrax, both considered weapons of mass destruction, in the summer of 2000, during the period in which United Nations weapons inspectors were not present in Iraq. And the papers show that Iraq trained dozens of terrorists inside its borders.

Story Continues Below

One of the Iraqi memos contains an order from Saddam for his intelligence service to support terrorist attacks against Americans in Somalia. The memo was written nine months before U.S. Army Rangers were ambushed in Mogadishu by forces loyal to a warlord with alleged ties to al-Qaida.

Other memos provide a list of terrorist groups with whom Iraq had relationships and considered available for terror operations against the United States.

Among the organizations mentioned are those affiliated with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri, two of the world's most wanted terrorists. Zarqawi is believed responsible for the kidnapping and beheading of several American civilians in Iraq and claimed blame for a series of deadly bombings in Iraq Sept. 30. Al-Zawahiri is the top lieutenant of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden, allegedly helped plan the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist strikes on the U.S., and is believed to be the voice on an audio tape broadcast by Al-Jazeera television Oct. 1, calling for attacks on U.S. and British interests everywhere.

The Source

A senior government official who is not a political appointee provided CNSNews.com with copies of the 42 pages of Iraqi Intelligence Service documents. The originals, some of which were hand-written and others typed, are in Arabic. CNSNews.com had the papers translated into English by two individuals separately and independent of each other.

There are no handwriting samples to which the documents can be compared for forensic analysis and authentication. However, three other experts - a former weapons inspector with the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), a retired CIA counter-terrorism official with vast experience dealing with Iraq, and a former advisor to then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton on Iraq - were asked to analyze the documents. All said they comport with the format, style and content of other Iraqi documents from that era known to be genuine.

Laurie Mylroie, who wrote the book "Study of Revenge: Saddam Hussein's Unfinished War Against America," and advised Bill Clinton on Iraq during the 1992 presidential campaign, told CNSNews.com that the papers represented "the most complete set of documents relating Iraq to terrorism, including Islamic terrorism" against the U.S.

Mylroie has long maintained that Iraq was a state sponsor of terrorism against the United States. The documents obtained by CNSNews.com, she said, include "correspondence back and forth between Saddam's office and Iraqi Mukhabarat [intelligence agency]. They make sense. This is what one would think Saddam was doing at the time."

Bruce Tefft, a retired CIA official who specialized in counter-terrorism and had extensive experience dealing with Iraq, said that "based on available, unclassified and open source information, the details in these documents are accurate ..."

The former UNSCOM inspector zeroed in on the signatures on the documents and "the names of some of the people who sign off on these things.

"This is fairly typical of that time era. [The Iraqis] were meticulous record keepers," added the former U.N. official, who spoke with CNSNews.com on the condition of anonymity.

The senior government official, who furnished the documents to CNSNews.com, said the papers answer "whether or not Iraq was a state sponsor of Islamic terrorism against the United States. It also answers whether or not Iraq had an ongoing biological warfare project continuing through the period when the UNSCOM inspections ended."

Presidential Campaign

The presidential campaign is currently dominated by debate over whether Saddam procured weapons of mass destruction and whether his government sponsored terrorism aimed at Americans before the U.S. invaded Iraq last year. Democrat nominee Sen. John Kerry has repeatedly rejected that possibility and criticized President Bush for needlessly invading Iraq.

"[Bush's] two main rationales - weapons of mass destruction and the al-Qaida/September 11 connection - have been proved false ... by the president's own weapons inspectors ... and by the 9/11 commission," Kerry told an audience at New York University on Sept. 20.

The Senate Intelligence Committee's probe of the 9/11 intelligence failures also could not produce any definitive links between Saddam's government and 9/11. And United Nations as well as U.S. weapons inspectors in Iraq have been unable to find the biological and chemical weapons Saddam was suspected of possessing.

But the documents obtained by CNSNews.com shed new light on the controversy.

They detail the Iraqi regime's purchase of five kilograms of mustard gas on Aug. 21, 2000 and three vials of malignant pustule, another term for anthrax, on Sept. 6, 2000. The purchase order for the mustard gas includes gas masks, filters and rubber gloves. The order for the anthrax includes sterilization and decontamination equipment.

The documents show that Iraqi intelligence received the mustard gas and anthrax from "Saddam's company," which Tefft said was probably a reference to Saddam General Establishment, "a complex of factories involved with, amongst other things, precision optics, missile, and artillery fabrication."

"Sa'ad's general company" is listed on the Iraqi documents as the supplier of the sterilization and decontamination equipment that accompanied the anthrax vials. Tefft believes this is a reference to the Salah Al-Din State Establishment, also involved in missile construction.

Jaber Ibn Hayan General Co. is listed as the supplier of the safety equipment that accompanied the mustard gas order. Tefft described the company as "a 'turn-key' project built by Romania, designed to produce protective CW [conventional warfare] and BW [biological warfare] equipment [gas masks and protective clothing]."

"Iraq had an ongoing biological warfare project continuing through the period when the UNSCOM inspections ended," the senior government official and source of the documents said. "This should cause us to redouble our efforts to find the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs."

'Hunt the Americans'

The first of the 42 pages of Iraqi documents is dated Jan. 18, 1993, approximately two years after American troops defeated Saddam's army in the first Persian Gulf War. The memo includes Saddam's directive that "the party should move to hunt the Americans who are on Arabian land, especially in Somalia, by using Arabian elements ..."

On Oct. 3, 1993, less than nine months after that Iraqi memo was written, American soldiers were ambushed in Mogadishu, Somalia by forces loyal to Somali warlord Mohammed Farah Aidid, an alleged associate of Osama bin Laden. Eighteen Americans were killed and 84 wounded during a 17-hour firefight that followed the ambush in which Aidid's followers used civilians as decoys.

An 11-page Iraqi memo, dated Jan. 25, 1993, lists Palestinian, Sudanese and Asian terrorist organizations and the relationships Iraq had with each of them. Of particular importance, Tefft said, are the relationships Iraq had already developed or was in the process of developing with groups and individuals affiliated with al-Qaida, such as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri. The U.S. is offering rewards of up to $25 million for each man's capture.

The documents describe Al-Jehad wa'l Tajdeed as "a secret Palestinian organization" founded after the first Persian Gulf War that "believes in armed struggle against U.S. and western interests." The leaders of the group, according to the Iraqi memo, were stationed in Jordan in 1993, and when one of those leaders visited Iraq in November 1992, he "showed the readiness of his organization to execute operations against U.S. interests at any time."

Tefft believes the Tajdeed group likely included al-Zarqawi, whom Teft described as "our current terrorist nemesis" in Iraq, "a Palestinian on a Jordanian passport who was with al-Qaida and bin Laden in Afghanistan prior to this period [1993]."

Tajdeed, which means Islamic Renewal, "has a Web site that posts Zarqawi's speeches, messages, claims of assassinations and beheading videos," Tefft told CNSNews.com. "The apparent linkages are too close to be accidental" and might "be one of the first operational contacts between an al-Qaida group and Iraq."

Tefft said the documents, all of which the Iraqi Intelligence Service labeled "Top secret, personal and urgent," showed several links between Saddam's government and terror groups dedicated not only to targeting America but also U.S. allies such as Egypt and Israel.

The same 11-page memo refers to the "re-opening of the relationship" with Al-Jehad al-Islamy, which is described as "the most violent in Egypt," responsible for the 1981 assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. The documents go on to describe a Dec. 14, 1990 meeting between Iraqi intelligence officials and a representative of Al-Jehad al-Islamy, that ended in an agreement "to move against [the] Egyptian regime by doing martyr operations on conditions that we should secure the finance, training and equipments."

Al-Zawahiri was one of the leaders of Jehad al-Islamy, also known as Egyptian Islamic Group, and participated in the assassination of Sadat, Tefft said. "Iraq's contact with the Egyptian Islamic Group is another operational contact between Iraq and al-Qaida," he added.

One of the Asian groups listed on the Iraqi intelligence memo is J.U.I., also known as Islamic Clerks Society. The group is led by Mawlana Fadhel al-Rahman, whom Tefft said is "an al-Qaida member and co-signed Osama bin Laden's 1998 fatwa (religious ruling) to kill Americans." The Iraqi memo from 1993 states that J.U.I.'s secretary general "has a good relationship with our system since 1981 and he is ready for any mission." Tefft said the memo shows "another direct Iraq link to an al-Qaida group."

Iraq had also maintained a relationship with the Afghani Islamist party since 1989, according to the memo. The "relationship was improved and became directly between the leader, Hekmatyar and Iraq," it states, referring to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, an Afghani warlord who fought against the Soviet Union and current al-Qaida ally, according to Tefft.

Last year, American authorities in Afghanistan ranked Hekmatyar third on their most wanted list, behind only bin Laden and former Taliban leader Mullah Omar. Hekmatyar represents "another Iraqi link to an al-Qaida group," Tefft said.

The Iraqi intelligence documents also refer to terrorist groups previously believed to have had links with Saddam Hussein. They include Palestine Liberation Front, a group dedicated to attacking Israel, and according to the Iraqi memo, one with "an office in Baghdad."

Abu Nidal

The Abu Nidal group, suspected by the CIA of having acted as surrogates for Iraqi terrorist attacks, is also mentioned.

"The movement believes in political violence and assassinations," the 1993 Iraqi memo states in reference to the Abu Nidal organization. "We have relationships with them since 1973. Currently, they have a representative in the country. Monthly helps are given to them - 20 thousand dinars - in addition to other supports," the memo explains. (See Saddam's Connections to Palestinian Terror Groups)

Iraq not only built and maintained relationships with terrorist groups, the documents show it appears to have trained terrorists as well. Ninety-two individuals from various Middle Eastern countries are listed on the papers.

Many are described as having "finished the course at M14," a reference to an Iraqi intelligence agency, and to having "participated in Umm El-Ma'arek," the Iraqi response to the U.S. invasion in 1991. The author of the list notes that approximately half of the individuals "all got trained inside the 'martyr act camp' that belonged to our directorate."

The former UNSCOM weapons inspector who was asked to analyze the documents believes it's clear that the Iraqis "were training people there in assassination and suicide bombing techniques ... including non-Iraqis."

Bush Administration Likely Unaware of Documents

The senior government official and source of the Iraqi intelligence memos, explained that the reason the documents had not been made public before now was that the government has "thousands and thousands of documents waiting to be translated.

"It is unlikely they even know this exists," the source added.

The government official also explained that the motivation for leaking the documents "is strictly national security and helping with the war on terrorism by focusing this country's attention on facts and away from political posturing."

"This is too important to let it get caught up in the political process," the source told CNSNews.com.

To protect against the Iraqi intelligence documents being altered or misrepresented elsewhere on the Internet, CNSNews.com has decided to publish only the first of the 42 pages in Arabic, along with the English translation. Portions of some of the other memos in translated form are also being published to accompany this report. Credentialed journalists and counter-terrorism experts seeking to view the 42 pages of Arabic documents or to challenge their authenticity may make arrangements to do so at CNSNews.com's headquarters in Alexandria, Va.

Copyright CNSNews.com
0 Replies
 
dhudlud37
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 05:55 pm
Despite supposed non-existence . . .

Nuclear assets 'vanish' in Iraq
BBC News
Monday, October 11, 2004

Equipment and materials that could be used to make nuclear arms have been vanishing in Iraq since the invasion, the United Nations has warned.

Satellite images show entire buildings have been dismantled without any record being made, said Mohamed ElBaradei, the head of the UN nuclear watchdog.

Iraq's US-backed leaders have not reported to the UN on the state of nuclear plants despite a duty to do so.

But they have asked the UN to help sell off unwanted nuclear material.

"The disappearance of such equipment and materials may be of proliferation significance" per Muhamed ElBaradei

Inspectors from Mr ElBaradei's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), who established that Saddam Hussein had abandoned any nuclear weapons programme before the war, have not been allowed to move about Iraq freely by the US.

Apart from a couple of limited checks on the main nuclear facility at Tuwaitha last June after reports of looting - and with no teams now on the ground - the IAEA has to rely on satellite imagery and other sources.

In a letter to the UN Security Council, Mr ElBaradei said buildings related to Iraq's previous nuclear programme appeared to have been systematically dismantled and equipment and material removed.

"The disappearance of such equipment and materials may be of proliferation significance," the IAEA director general warned.

No reports

Sensitive technology such as rocket engines has turned up for sale abroad, Mr ElBaradei said.

However, high-precision "dual-use" items including milling machines and electron beam welders appear to have disappeared, as has material such as high-strength aluminium.

Mr ElBaradei called on any state with information on the location of such items to inform his agency.

The US removed nearly two tonnes of low-enriched uranium from Iraq earlier this year. The IAEA has verified that 550 tonnes of nuclear material still remain at Tuwaitha.

Iraq, the agency says, has asked for help to sell the nuclear material and in dismantling and decontaminating former nuclear facilities.

Mr ElBaradei reminded the Security Council that Iraq was still obliged to "declare semi-annually changes that have occurred or are foreseen at sites deemed relevant" by the IAEA.

However, since March 2003 "the agency has received no such notifications or declarations from any state", he said.

Last week, a report from chief US weapons inspector Charles Duelfer concluded that Saddam Hussein had stopped trying to build weapons of mass destruction following the 1991 Gulf War.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/3735224.stm

Published: 2004/10/11 23:49:10 GMT

© BBC MMIV
0 Replies
 
dhudlud37
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 05:56 pm
Sunday, Oct. 3, 2004 10:08 a.m. EDT

Condi: Saddam Prepared to Restart Nuke Program

National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice said Sunday that Saddam Hussein was prepared to restart his nuclear weapons program on a moment's notice, rebutting claims by Sen. John Kerry during Thursday night's presidential debate that Iraq posed no nuclear threat.

"One of the heads of his nuclear program, Mr. Obeidi, said in the New York Times just a few days ago that Saddam Hussein could have restarted his nuclear program at the snap of a finger," Rice told ABC's "This Week."

Story Continues Below

Last week Dr. Mahdi Obeidi, who was in charge of Saddam's uranium enrichment operation, told Fox News Channel's Sean Hannity that he turned over blueprints for centrifuges that Saddam wanted built to U.S. weapons inspectors after the war.

Obeidi worked at the al Tuwaitha nuclear weapons facility south of Baghdad, where 500 tons of yellowcake uranium ore were stored for weapons development.

Asked if he was working to obtain a nuclear bomb for Saddam "well into the late 1990s," Obeidi told Hannity, "I was."

The Iraqi nuclear scientist details his efforts to produce nuclear weapons for Iraq in his new book, "The Bomb in My Garden."

Dr. Rice cited Obeidi's account to back up the assessment of what she described as "the intelligence community as a whole," which had determined that aluminum tubes uncovered in Iraq were "certainly suitable for and likely intended for his nuclear weapons program."

"The director of central intelligence believed that these tubes were part of a reconstituted nuclear weapons program," Rice told ABC. "I would point out that the Department of Energy report also joined in the assessment that Saddam Hussein was reconstituting his nuclear weapons program."

Dr. Rice said those assessments followed other evidence, which included the importation into Iraq of balancing equipment suitable for nuclear weapons development and the fact that Iraq's nuclear weapons scientists, like Dr. Obeidi, were still in place.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 06:18 pm
Lol - but it is such a good question - where are the weapons of mass destruction which formed the excuse for the US (and its allies) to invade another country?

Perhaps if you could answer it without wriggling and ducking and weaving like worms on hooks we would stop asking.

here's a clue.

they didn't exist.

even Bush has had to admit that.

he just hasn't made the next step - which is to say "I was wrong".

I won't be holding my breath though. Don't think it's in the stunningly small vocab....
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 07:07 pm
dlowan wrote:
Lol - but it is such a good question - where are the weapons of mass destruction which formed the excuse for the US (and its allies) to invade another country?

Perhaps if you could answer it without wriggling and ducking and weaving like worms on hooks we would stop asking.

here's a clue.

they didn't exist.

even Bush has had to admit that.

he just hasn't made the next step - which is to say "I was wrong".

I won't be holding my breath though. Don't think it's in the stunningly small vocab....


Now don't be silly. Of course Saddam had WMD. The question is what did he do with them? Did he destroy all of them, or did he haul them to a place for safekeeping? And where might that place be?

Some of us aren't content to believe Saddam was a nice guy. We don't give him the benefit of the doubt that: (a) he wouldn't give WMD or secrets of WMD to the terrorists which he provided support to, or (b) he didn't have WMD, simply because they've not been found. Giving Saddam the benefit of the doubt seems to me to be a singularly bad idea. The opposite seems to be the better course of action: Assume Saddam was lying, and understand that he was a despicable murderous cretin that hated the United States. Then act accordingly. There is evil in this world, and notwithstanding the soft fuzzy feeling we might get thinking people are basically good, some people are evil. Thus you must forgive me if I'm skeptical of Saddam's good intentions.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 07:29 pm
Lol - I am struck by the simplistic thinking you show - ie believing the evidence of my own research and the American government's own reports that there were no WMD= (in your eyes)thinking America's ex-stooge Saddam is a nice guy.

I do not think in simplistic binary terms.

I both think Saddam was a very nasty guy, and that the excuses used for the war were manifestly untrue, and the war a damaging mistake.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:54 pm
dlowan wrote:
Lol - I am struck by the simplistic thinking you show - ie believing the evidence of my own research and the American government's own reports that there were no WMD= (in your eyes)thinking America's ex-stooge Saddam is a nice guy.

I do not think in simplistic binary terms.

I both think Saddam was a very nasty guy, and that the excuses used for the war were manifestly untrue, and the war a damaging mistake.


Wrong. Saddam had WMD. We know he had WMD. The critical question is did he get rid of it? If so, how and when. If not, where did it go?

There are those who believe Saddam never had WMD. Are you one of them?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:53 pm
I believe, on very good evidence, (see your own government report that even Bush seems to believe) , that he got rid of what he had after Gulf War I.

I suggest you come up with mighty good evidence, not just "I think so and you're an idiot if you disagree with me"- which is what you have come up with so far - if you are going to contest this.

Oh - if you DO have good evidence, why not turn it over to your government - they seem to be having lots of trouble getting any.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 11:11 pm
dlowan wrote:
I believe, on very good evidence, (see your own government report that even Bush seems to believe) , that he got rid of what he had after Gulf War I.

I suggest you come up with mighty good evidence, not just "I think so and you're an idiot if you disagree with me"- which is what you have come up with so far - if you are going to contest this.

Oh - if you DO have good evidence, why not turn it over to your government - they seem to be having lots of trouble getting any.


Did I call you an idiot?

You should give me a little more credit than you are. I don't tend to call someone an "idiot" just because they have an opinion that's different than mine. Unlike some on this board who shall remain nameless. Very Happy

I've actually argued with someone about whether Saddam EVER had WMD. I'm glad I don't have to convince you of that. Similarly, you don't need to convince me of the existence of the government report that indicated Saddam had destroyed his WMD post-Gulf War I, but retained the capabilities to reconstitute his weapons programs within days/months.

And while I would like to believe that was the case (and it very well may be), I've also seen reports that large convoys of trucks were seen by surveillance satellites carrying something into Syria. I'm very interested to find out what that was. Aren't you?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 11:27 pm
"Now don't be silly. Of course Saddam had WMD"

You're right - you called me silly - a little softer than idiot, to be sure - but I think your words strongly connected in most definitions.

"but retained the capabilities to reconstitute his weapons programs within days/months."

More like years in my opinion. Perhaps some in months - perhaps we need to define mass.

"I've also seen reports that large convoys of trucks were seen by surveillance satellites carrying something into Syria. I'm very interested to find out what that was. Aren't you? "

Hmmm - in the mess of misinformation leading up top this war, so many things have been labelled "evidence" of WMD, that have not been, thta I will now view all these vague sightings and rumours of maybe sightings with many grains of salt, until I see clear, unequivocal evidence.

Won't you?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2004 11:47 pm
Quote:
"Now don't be silly. Of course Saddam had WMD"

You're right - you called me silly - a little softer than idiot, to be sure - but I think your words strongly connected in most definitions.


I'm such a nice guy, I didn't even call you silly. I told you not to be silly. And in a very polite, yet ever-so-slightly scolding manner. Very Happy

Quote:
"but retained the capabilities to reconstitute his weapons programs within days/months."

More like years in my opinion. Perhaps some in months - perhaps we need to define mass.


Going strictly off memory, I believe the same report you are referring to put the schedule for reconstituting his weapons programs at 30 days for chemical and maybe 6-8 months for biological weapons. The "years" time-frame might be accurate for nuclear weapons.

Quote:
"I've also seen reports that large convoys of trucks were seen by surveillance satellites carrying something into Syria. I'm very interested to find out what that was. Aren't you? "

Hmmm - in the mess of misinformation leading up top this war, so many things have been labelled "evidence" of WMD, that have not been, thta I will now view all these vague sightings and rumours of maybe sightings with many grains of salt, until I see clear, unequivocal evidence.

Won't you?


Yes, I have many grains of salt. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2004 12:09 am
Did you see this article?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2004 03:05 pm
Re: WMD and The True Basis of Operation Iraqi Freedom
dhudlud37 wrote:
The Anti-Americans at home and abroad, confronted with the unmitigated success of "Operation Iraqi Freedom". . .

Can't . . . . stop . . . . laughing!
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2004 03:23 pm
Quote:
Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.


But, according to Rumsfeld and Cheney, we knew EXACTLY where the WMDs were. We KNEW they were there. We KNEW those labs were bio labs. We KNEW, we KNEW we KNEW....

Such losses of credibility here.

Unbelievable.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2004 08:42 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Quote:
"Now don't be silly. Of course Saddam had WMD"

You're right - you called me silly - a little softer than idiot, to be sure - but I think your words strongly connected in most definitions.


I'm such a nice guy, I didn't even call you silly. I told you not to be silly. And in a very polite, yet ever-so-slightly scolding manner. Very Happy.


Attempts at patronization are always silly.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2004 09:13 pm
dlowan wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Quote:
"Now don't be silly. Of course Saddam had WMD"

You're right - you called me silly - a little softer than idiot, to be sure - but I think your words strongly connected in most definitions.


I'm such a nice guy, I didn't even call you silly. I told you not to be silly. And in a very polite, yet ever-so-slightly scolding manner. Very Happy.


Attempts at patronization are always silly.


Not if warranted. :wink:
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2004 10:21 pm
Those who are of such a bent always believe it is warranted whenever they are disagreed with. Ah well, such is life....
0 Replies
 
 

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