0
   

The Physics of 911

 
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 11:37 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
tell him about the coal mine fire in Centralia Pa

Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the Towers were coal storage facilities.

But seriously, let me tell you about it:
____________________________________________

According to a report by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP), over the years there have been numerous borehole temperature readings in excess of 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. The highest temperature ever recorded at the Centralia PA mine fire was 1350 degrees Fahrenheit. That is enough to melt many types of glass!
____________________________________________

http://www.centraliapa.org/how-hot-centralia-mine-fire-temperature/

You should really do some research into what you use to support your conjecture.

Also, maybe you'd like to explain how the upper block--the part of the North Tower above the impact zone that sustained the most damage--dropped down and crushed the intact core structure below. How is it that the lower intact core structure offered no resistance to speak of. Are you familiar with the law of conservation of energy and how it applies to the issue of the speed of collapse?
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 12:04 pm
@Olivier5,
No, it couldn't, Olivier. Why do you keep insisting on an impossibility and ignoring the fact that the vaporized steel means that the alleged hijackers were not responsible for the collapse of the three towers?

The fact that NIST's report is a lie and a fraud seals the deal. The US government official conspiracy theory is dead. In fact it has always been dead, only kept alive by people who have no morals, people who are content with the illegal invasions, the murder of millions, the demonization of people for things that they never did.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 12:13 pm
@camlok,
Unlike that of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan by the US was on solid legal ground. The Taliban saw it coming.
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 01:23 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Unlike that of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan by the US was on solid legal ground. The Taliban saw it coming.


Wrong again.

Quote:

War on Afghanistan is Illegal

...

Though President Obama has frequently spoken of “renewing our commitment” to international law, he escalated military action in Afghanistan. The invasion of Afghanistan has been illegal from its inception, contrary to conventional wisdom that the horrific crimes of 9/11 and the Taliban’s “safe haven” for Al Qaeda justified full-scale war. America’s use of military force to punish, seize, kill, or dismantle Al Qaeda and the Taliban violates the Charter of the United Nations, the Geneva Conventions, and key provisions of eleven international agreements dealing with the suppression and control of terrorism.3 U.S. and NATO actions constitute war crimes pursuant to the Rome Statute, the 2002 treaty establishing the International Criminal Court to prosecute genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.4

The UN Charter prohibits the use and threatened use of any force in member states’ international relations; states must settle their disputes by peaceful means. It prohibits the use of force to topple foreign governments. Article 2 of the Charter prohibits the use or threatened use of forces against another state. The Article 2 prohibition applies to all force and is a rule of customary international law. Professor Francis Boyle reminds us,

Bush Jr. went to the UN Security Council to get a resolution authorizing the use of military force against Afghanistan and Al Qaeda. He failed. You have to remember that. This war has never been authorized by the United Nations Security Council . . . . It constitutes an act and a war of aggression by the United States against Afghanistan.5

Article 51 of the Charter, which defines member states’ right of self-defense, does not create any right to make retaliatory attacks or to engage in the use of force to repel anticipated armed attacks. Former Guild President Marjorie Cohn explains that Operation Enduring Freedom was not legitimate self-defense under the Charter because the 9/11 attacks were crimes against humanity, not armed attacks by another country. Furthermore, there was not an imminent threat of an armed attack on the U.S. after 9/11, and the necessity for self-defense must be “instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation.”6 President Bush stretched traditional notions of self-defense by assigning the Taliban regime responsibility based on “harboring” Osama bin Laden and his operation.

Not only was the war unjustified, but there is mounting factual evidence that the war is “demonstrably criminal in its execution,” says Canadian military veteran John McNamer. In a brief sent to members of Parliament, McNamer documents substantial allegations of illegal torture; illegal and abusive detainments – sometimes leading to deaths in custody; civilian deaths from bombing and other indiscriminate use of force, and collusion with illegal “renditions” of individuals to and from other countries for purposes of torture.7 All national and international law forbid the killing of non-combatants. Total civilian deaths caused by U.S. led military actions are estimated at 8,991 to 28,583 direct and indirect deaths.8

“The Charter,” explains a treatise in International Law, “is based on the belief that international law should not be enforced by the commission of more crimes.” With every passing day, the U.S. commits more crimes in Afghanistan and the rationales for this war continue to crumble before reality.

http://www.nlgmass.org/2011/02/war-on-afghanistan-is-illegal/
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 01:30 pm
The pyroclastic dust clouds are yet another indication of explosives to bring down the towers, as if you needed any more reasons.

MIT Engineer Disputes 911 Theory of the WTC Collapse-Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW81Cd7nNH8

MIT Engineer Disputes 911 Theory of the WTC Collapse-Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8W-t57xnZg

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 02:41 pm
@camlok,
The UN never recognized the Taliban regime as legitimate, and recognises the right to self-defence, and none of the UN Charter provisions your quote invoqued applies in a case of self-defence. An Afghanistan-based organisation linked to the Taliban and protected by them attacked the US first. The Security Council approved the US rsponse. 'Nuf said.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 02:51 pm
@camlok,
camlok wrote:

No, it couldn't, Olivier.

You don't even know what Glenn and I are talking about...

He has admitted that there was a fire ragging in the rubble. Now all he needs to understand is that such a fire could have melt some iron, period.
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 03:18 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
and recognises the right to self-defence, and none of the UN Charter provisions your quote invoqued applies in a case of self-defence.


Now I understand your problem. You can't read.

"Article 51 of the Charter, which defines member states’ right
of self-defense, does not create any right to make retaliatory attacks or to engage in the use of force to repel anticipated armed attacks.

Former Guild President Marjorie Cohn explains that Operation Enduring Freedom was not legitimate self-defense under the Charter because the 9/11 attacks were crimes against humanity, not armed attacks by another country.

Furthermore, there was not an imminent threat of an armed attack on the U.S. after 9/11, and the necessity for self-defense must be “instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation.”6 President Bush stretched traditional notions of self-defense by assigning the Taliban regime responsibility based on “harboring” Osama bin Laden and his operation."
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 03:21 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
The Security Council approved the US rsponse. 'Nuf said.


Again, you can't read. Is your grasp of English that poor?

"Bush Jr. went to the UN Security Council to get a resolution authorizing the use of military force against Afghanistan and Al Qaeda. He failed. You have to remember that. This war has never been authorized by the United Nations Security Council . . . . It constitutes an act and a war of aggression by the United States against Afghanistan.5"
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 03:33 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
He has admitted that there was a fire ragging in the rubble.


"raging".

That would be from the nanothermite that creates its own oxygen, and the exceedingly high temperatures, enough to vaporize steel.

Your silly notion about fires raging from office furnishings is pure nonsense, totally unsupported by any person with an ounce of sense - even farmerman.

What about all the reports of bombs? NIST said there were no bombs, no explosions.

How did Mayor R Guiliani know the WTC was going to collapse when steel frame high rises had never before then [or since then] collapsed due to fires?

Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 03:44 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
He has admitted that there was a fire ragging in the rubble.

What I said was: "I'm not denying the presence of fire in the rubble. I'm explaining to you that fires in the rubble cannot account for the pools of molten metal and melted girders down in the "crater" under tons and tons of pulverized, compacted concrete floors."

How did you get "there was a fire raging in the rubble" from that. I just said that I'm not denying the presence of fire in the rubble. But that's not the issue here anyway. The issue is your belief that any fire in the rubble spread downward through the pulverized and compressed concrete to create pools of molten metal and steel girders even in the basement where I've already mentioned the several sources of water present there.

Now how about explaining how the upper block--the part of the North Tower above the impact zone that sustained the most damage--dropped down and crushed the intact core structure below. How is it that the lower intact core structure offered no resistance to speak of. Again, are you familiar with the law of conservation of energy and how it applies to the issue of the speed of collapse?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 03:56 pm
@camlok,
I am not aware that the US sought prior UNSC approval and was declined it. All the permanent members were in favor, or could not possibly have vetoed it in the wake of 9/11.

In any case, the SC sanctioned the invasion post factum in dec 2001 with the creation of IFOR and the Bonn agreement.

The UN charter does not protect regimes that are not recognized by the UN.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 03:57 pm
@camlok,
Whether it was from termites or plastic and paper makes no difference to the fact that steel could have melt in that fire...
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 04:05 pm
@Olivier5,
"... there's parts where the entire 1/2" of the beam is gone, entirely dissolved ... . Well, it was attacked by what we determined was a liquid slag. When we did the analysis, we actually identified it as a liquid containing iron, sulfur and oxygen."
Professor Richard Sissons - Worcester Polytechnic Institute

0:32 to 0:58 of,

911 • Molten Steel And NIST Lies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bv95zzBh18
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 04:12 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Whether it was from termites or plastic and paper makes no difference to the fact that steel could have melt in that fire...


No, steel cannot be melted by "plastic and paper". Why would the fire professor in the video be so surprised about the steel being vaporized? Why were all the fire wise professors so shocked. [see quote below]

Ask farmerman. He won't support this silly notion of yours at all.

Quote:
New York Times journalist James Glanz, writing near the end of 2001 about the collapse of WTC 7, reported that some engineers said that a “combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down,” but that this “would not explain,” according to Dr. Barnett, “steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temperatures.” [13]
Glanz was referring to Jonathan Barnett, a professor of fire protection engineering at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI). Early in 2002, Barnett and two WPI colleagues published an analysis of a section of steel from one of the Twin Towers, along with sections from WTC 7, as an appendix to FEMA’s 2002 World Trade Center Building Performance Study. [14] Their discoveries were also reported in a WPI article entitled “The ‘Deep Mystery’ of Melted Steel,” which said:

“[S]teel – which has a melting point of 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit [1538°C] – may weaken and bend, but does not melt during an ordinary office fire. Yet metallurgical studies on WTC steel brought back to WPI reveal that a novel phenomenon – called a eutectic reaction – occurred at the surface, causing intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese.”

Stating that the New York Times called these findings “perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation,” the article added:

“A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges – which are curled like a paper scroll – have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes – some larger than a silver dollar – let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending – but not holes.” [15]

In discussing “the deepest mystery,” the New York Times story said: “The steel apparently melted away, but no fire in any of the buildings was believed to be hot enough to melt steel outright.” [16] That was an understatement, because a building fire, even with a perfect mixture of air and fuel, could at most reach 1,000°C (1,832°F). [17] In fact, Professor Thomas Eagar of MIT estimated that the fires were “probably only about 1,200 or 1,300°F [648 or 704°C].” [18]

http://www.consensus911.org/point-tt-6/

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 04:36 pm
@camlok,
Quote:
No, steel cannot be melted by "plastic and paper".

Of course it can. All you need is an environment trapping a good deal of the heat in the system. It's the principle of a bloomery...

Quote:
Why would the fire professor in the video be so surprised about the steel being vaporized?

Am I supposed to explain why any scientist would be surprised by your wild "CIA-termites-did-it" theories?

Anyway, the important thing is that you agree that steel could have melted in that fire, post-collapse.

Tell that to your good friend Glenn. He doesn't listen to me anymore.
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 04:53 pm
@Olivier5,
Just as fire has never, ever caused the collapse of any steel framed high rises before 911 or since 911 in all of history, never, ever has steel been melted by office furnishings/paper, let alone being vaporized.

These are just two of the absolute impossibilities that farmerman won't address, he won't go anywhere near them.

Now ask yourself, why would NIST deny the molten/vaporized steel when there was so much evidence for that?

Why would John Gross, NIST's 2nd in command, absolutely and categorically deny molten steel when there are pictures of him touching the end of a previously molten/vaporized steel beam or column?

Why would NIST absolutely and categorically deny molten steel when the man who helped design the WTC twin towers described a "little river of molten steel" when he was touring underground at WTC?

That these things don't connect with people who supposedly have brains is truly astonishing. If anyone here tried such a blatant scam, they would be mercilessly ridiculed and run off Able2KNow.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 04:57 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Anyway, the important thing is that you agree that steel could have melted in that fire, post-collapse.


Yes, not "could have", did melt from the nanothermite that absolutely should not have been there. How you can cling to your silly notion, push the nanothermite from your brain has got to be one of the classic examples of cognitive dissonance the world has ever seen.

Quote:
It's the principle of a bloomery...


The principle behind that is forced air induction either thru mechanical means or a natural stack effect. No one would heap piles of concrete dust upon the fuel being used.

camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2017 05:39 pm
@camlok,
Quote:
we actually identified it as a liquid containing iron, sulfur and oxygen."


Ask farmerman about this "wutectic" steel.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Mar, 2017 01:20 am
@camlok,
Since you have never cared to say what you mean by the word nanothermites", it's easy to treat them as a myth. Like: "the devil". If you were a better debater, you would have plugged that hole in your argument a long time ago.

Something else that helps is your incapacity to understand what we are telling you. If you misunderstand me all the time, it follows that you could have misunderstood your own source. And in fact I proved as much on one occasion: you misundetstood what your own sources said about vaporized lead.

Another example: there is no such thing as "vaporized steel", because steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. Vapors don't form alloys. All you can possibly get is vaporized iron and vaporized carbon. May seem like a detail but it shows you are sloppy and can easily talk of things that are way beyond your understanding.
 

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