0
   

Russia accused of orchestrating a coup in Montenegro.

 
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Tue 7 Mar, 2017 10:25 am
@camlok,
Quote camlok:
Quote:
You have to be bonkers to believe that. Russia did something honest that the US has never done. It relinquished, rather willingly, its past. It set free countries to seek their own futures.

You're a laugh, you know that? Russia didn't let Eastern Europe go because they were nice guys. Russia was so broke it was begging for money from the West. It simply couldn't afford to carry on its government, let alone suppress any independence uprisings by Eastern Europe. The West made it a condition of the aid that they let the Eastern European countries go.

Here was the first installment of billions of dollars in aid from the US to Russia. Eventually the aid would come to $6 Billion in cash and credits:

SUMMIT IN VANCOUVER; CLINTON PRESENTS BILLION TO YELTSIN IN U.S. AID PACKAGE
VANCOUVER, British Columbia, April 3— As President Clinton and President Boris N. Yeltsin of Russia began their first summit meeting today, Mr. Clinton presented the Russian leader with some $1 billion in American aid programs intended to support Russian democrats and spur the Western allies to make Russian reform their top foreign policy priority.

Among the new or expanded programs in the package were loan guarantees to build apartments for demobilized Russian soldiers; loans for Russian entrepreneurs; medical supplies, food and grain assistance; funds to help the Russian Government sell state-owned industries, and technical advisers to help repair pipelines and oil wells and begin exporting again.

Mr. Clinton said the package was intended to help promote free-market skills on a grass-roots level in both Moscow and the Russian countryside, so the movement toward democratic reform would continue no matter who governs in the Kremlin.

NY Times April 1993
izzythepush
 
  3  
Tue 7 Mar, 2017 10:34 am
@Blickers,
There were revolutions throughout Eastern Europe, some more violent than others. And prior to that Russia's hands were evident in violent suppression in Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Poland.

I'm on record as saying I want US bases on British soil closed down, but I have to admit they're far more benign than the Russian equivalent in former Warsaw pact countries. We do have free and fair elections which only happened in E Europe after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Tue 7 Mar, 2017 12:31 pm
@izzythepush,
That would be doable because the US has the most bases around the world.
https://www.thenation.com/article/the-united-states-probably-has-more-foreign-military-bases-than-any-other-people-nation-or-empire-in-history/

http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/02/uk-vs-russia-attack/
izzythepush
 
  4  
Tue 7 Mar, 2017 01:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What did it for me was the bombing of Tripoli by Reagan using British airbases authorised by Thatcher without even a word to parliament. Until then I was quite relaxed about them.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Tue 7 Mar, 2017 01:17 pm
@izzythepush,
I don't blame you one iota. Now with Trump, it's even more questionable.

Many are questioning Trump's mental heath.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/opinion/is-it-time-to-call-trump-mentally-ill.html?_r=0
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  0  
Tue 7 Mar, 2017 02:10 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I'm on record as saying I want US bases on British soil closed down, but I have to admit they're far more benign than the Russian equivalent in former Warsaw pact countries. We do have free and fair elections which only happened in E Europe after the collapse of the Soviet Union.


Ask the 3 million dead Vietnamese, the 3 million dead Koreans, the million dead Cambodians, the following two million dead Cambodians from the 1 million dead Cambodians, the ... how benign the US is.
camlok
 
  0  
Tue 7 Mar, 2017 02:37 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
What did it for me was the bombing of Tripoli by Reagan using British airbases authorised by Thatcher without even a word to parliament. Until then I was quite relaxed about them.


Oh, the calamity! Not a word to Parliament! Did you choke on your crumpet?

But nothing for the poor Libyans. Or how about the Nicaraguans who Reagan was having slaughtered?
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  2  
Tue 7 Mar, 2017 11:22 pm
@camlok,
Quote Camlok:
Quote:
Ask....the 3 million dead Koreans,

South Korea loves us just fine. We saved South Korea from a living hell-which hell is to live like North Korea. Korea is one country with one people and one culture. The North became allies with Russia, the South became allies with the United States. The result?

Life Expectancy:
North Korea..........70 years
South Korea..........81 years

GDP per capita:
North Korea..........$1,000
South Korea........$25,000

Vehicles per 1,000 inhabitants:
North Korea..........11
South Korea........370

North Korea and South Korea are the perfect example of what happens when two identical places throw their fates in Russia vs the United States. North Korea is a dump where the people live hardscrabble lives with no hope for the future. South Korea is a dynamic nation which has lifted itself up and become an auto manufacturing and electronic giant, among other things. South Koreans live over 10 years longer, they drive cars, they live modern lives. North Koreans live a tragic existence, and it is all because they allowed themselves to get allied with Russia, which is another dump, living-standards wise.

Poor North Koreans-living a nightmare because of Russia.
camlok
 
  -1  
Wed 8 Mar, 2017 10:56 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
South Korea loves us just fine.


Really? South Korea never existed. It was an artificial creation of the US, with the typical US installed, brutal right wing dictatorship. Which has continued to this day. Just like "South Vietnam".

Boy, you guys are gullible!

South Korean love the US so much that they came, tried to come but were blocked by "South Korean" government, to a US War Crimes Tribunal in New York city. Delegates from the north of Korea were blocked by the US government, you know, the guys from the freedom of speech country.
camlok
 
  -1  
Wed 8 Mar, 2017 10:58 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
We saved South Korea from a living hell


In typical US fashion, slaughtering any who didn't want US style "democracy"m which means installing a dictatorship. Some democracy, right?

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  5  
Wed 8 Mar, 2017 11:12 am
@Blickers,
Kim Jong Un has helped the British barber industry and given us a laugh.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/15/article-2605047-1D20A6E100000578-227_308x571.jpg

Quote:
North Korean officials paid a visit to a London hair salon to question why it had used their leader Kim Jong-un's picture in a poster offering haircuts.

The poster in M&M Hair Academy in South Ealing featured the words "Bad Hair Day?" below the leader's picture.

Barber Karim Nabbach said embassy officials were shown the door and the salon's manager spoke to the police.

The Met Police said: "We have spoken to all parties involved and no offence has been disclosed."

The salon put up the poster on 9 April and the next day two men claiming to be officials from the North Korean embassy visited the salon and demanded to meet the manager, Mo Nabbach.

Karim Nabbach said: "We put up posters for an offer for men's hair cuts through the month of April. Obviously in the current news there has been this story that North Korean men are only allowed one haircut.
"We didn't realise but the North Korean embassy is a 10-minute walk from the salon. The next day we had North Korean officials pop into the salon asking to speak to the manager.

"He said 'listen this isn't North Korea, this is England, we live in a democracy so I'm afraid you're going to have to get out of my salon'."

The manager later informed the police about the visit by the North Koreans and he was told the embassy had also contacted officers.
"We haven't had any trouble since then, if anything the poster has become a tourist attraction," Karim Nabbach said.

Speaking to BBC Radio 4's PM programme, he added: "A lot of our loyal clients found it hilarious and people on the street came in and complimented us on it and it drew in a little bit of business.

"No-one asked for the 'Un'.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27038723
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 8 Mar, 2017 12:30 pm
@izzythepush,
That rates a 5-star rating!
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 8 Mar, 2017 12:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Thanks. The reason the barber didn't know the N Korean embassy was so near is because it's just a poxy detached house.

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20160817&t=2&i=1149978701&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=780&pl=468&sq=&r=LYNXNPEC7G0CS

I've been to grander dentists, compare to the US embassy.

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpgs/london/american_embassy_london_u260210_7.jpg
Blickers
 
  3  
Wed 8 Mar, 2017 01:39 pm
@camlok,
Quote Camlok:
Quote:
Really? South Korea never existed. It was an artificial creation of the US, with the typical US installed, brutal right wing dictatorship.

LOL @ "brutal dictatorship" in South Korea. Most brutal dictatorships keep people down economically, like Russia for instance. Let me run these facts again, just to emphasize to the readers just how divorced from reality you really are.

Life Expectancy:
North Korea..........70 years
South Korea..........81 years

GDP per capita:
North Korea..........$1,000
South Korea........$25,000

Vehicles per 1,000 inhabitants:
North Korea..........11
South Korea........370

South Koreans live a normal, First World life with all the advantages that entails. Their economy is booming, they are known not only for heavy manufacturing but also as a technological giant. North Koreans live a hardscrabble Third World life with all the hardship and difficulties that entails. And this is the same country, same pre-WWII history, same culture. All that is different between the two is that South Korea allied itself with the West, North Korea allied itself with Russia. Now look at the two places.

camlok
 
  -1  
Wed 8 Mar, 2017 06:34 pm
@izzythepush,
Yes, it's a wonder what the US replacing the UK as the world's largest thieving nation will do for their bank account. Seventy years of US terrorismagainst Korea, the whole of Korea, threatening the people of the north with nuclear annihilation.

Are you pining for the old days, Izzy, when merry ole England was stealing everyone's treasure?
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  -1  
Wed 8 Mar, 2017 06:38 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
LOL @ "brutal dictatorship" in South Korea.


I'll betcha a couple of Izzy's quid that you won't read it, or even address it.

==============

Korea International War Crimes Tribunal, June 23, 2001, New York

Indictment for Offenses Committed by the
Government of the United States of America
Against the People of Korea, 1945-2001.

http://iacenter.org/Koreafiles/ktc_indictment.htm
Blickers
 
  3  
Wed 8 Mar, 2017 10:27 pm
@camlok,
Oh please, your "proof" is a show put on by a private advocacy group, and the Korean War happened just a few years after WWII ended. I deal with real statistics about the way people are living now, not the way their grandparents lived. In the 2012 election, 75% of Koreans voted. They have the usual freedoms of the advanced democratic countries, and they have a First World standard of living, a membership in the G20 of advanced economies, and international respect as a vibrant economy and technological center.

I'll just repeat the stats I gave before, just so the readers can refresh their memories as to just far out in the ozone you are as a poster.

Life Expectancy:
North Korea..........70 years
South Korea..........81 years

GDP per capita:
North Korea..........$1,000
South Korea........$25,000

Vehicles per 1,000 inhabitants:
North Korea..........11
South Korea........370

Oh, I forgot to mention, people in North Korea have their food rationed. In South Korea they are driving cars, jetting to overseas vacation spots and living the good life. In North Korea, they wait each week for the ration of food the government allows them. And you're complaining about the South Korean government and praising the North Korean? You must be insane.

The West showed its superiority over the totalitarian world in Korea. It exemplifies the difference.

camlok
 
  1  
Thu 9 Mar, 2017 06:37 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
Oh, I forgot to mention, people in North Korea have their food rationed.

The West showed its superiority over the totalitarian world in Korea.


Not at all. The "West", meaning the USA, showed, once again, that it was capable of vicious war crimes, simply to steal other's wealth.

Quote:
Though the North Koreans had a reputation for viciousness, according to Cumings, U.S. soldiers actually engaged in more civilian massacres. This included dropping over half a million tons of bombs and thousands of tons of napalm, more than was loosed on the entire Pacific theater in World War II, almost indiscriminately.

...

Cumings adds, “Rapes were extremely common. Koreans in the South will still say that that was one of the worst things of the war (was how)many American soldiers were raping Korean women.”

...

One of the worst atrocities was perpetrated by the South Korean police at the small city of Tae Jun. They executed 7,000 political prisoners while Central Intelligence Agency and U.S. military officials looked on, Cumings said. To compound the crime, the Pentagon blamed the atrocity on the Communists, Cumings said. “The Joint Chiefs of Staff classified the photographs of it because they make it clear who’s doing it, and they don’t let the photographs out until 1999 when a Korean finally got them declassified.” To top that off, the historian says, “the Pentagon did a video movie called ‘Crime of Korea’ where you see shots of pits that go on for like a football field, pit after pit of dead people, and (actor) Humphrey Bogart in a voice-over says, ‘someday the Communists will pay for this, someday we’ll get the full totals and believe me we’ll get the exact, accurate totals of the people murdered here and we will make these war criminals pay.’

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-korean-war-the-unknown-war-the-coverup-of-us-war-crimes/23742
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Thu 9 Mar, 2017 03:00 pm
Ah, yes, let's dwell on possible war crimes that happened a few years after WWII and ignore the massive progress the South Korean people have achieved by aligning themselves with the West. And also ignore the social calamities that have befallen the poor North Koreans who aligned themselves with Russia. For instance, do you know that due to food rationing, horrible medical care and grotesquely bad living conditions, the average North Korean male is physically shorter than his South Korean counterpart. By a lot.

Physical height:
North Korea.............5ft. 5.25 inches
South Korea.............5ft. 8.5 inches
Difference: North Koreans are 3.25 inches shorter than South Koreans.
Height Chart

Remember that the North Koreans and South Koreans are one people who have the same genes. When it gets to the point that a government is so bad that its people are shrinking in physical stature due to mismanagement, that's setting a new bar for governmental ineptitude. And indeed, that is what the North Korea government is doing.

Gotta hand it to you, camlok. You know how to back a loser.
camlok
 
  0  
Thu 9 Mar, 2017 03:58 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
And also ignore the social calamities that have befallen the poor North Koreans who aligned themselves with Russia.


Russia and China helped the people of Korea throw out the invading monsters and then they returned home. If the Korean people had had the chance, free from US state sponsored war crimes and 70 years of US state sponsored terrorism, they would be exactly like Vietnam is today.

You advance the spurious notion that the US has some innate right to determine how other countries determine their futures. That's god awful hypocrisy from you and the other ignorant Americans considering that you all believe you had a right to determine your political future.

Quote:
Ah, yes, let's dwell on possible war crimes


Not possible, actual, and war crimes don't ever end or expire.

Quote:
One of 18 "execution photos" taken of some of the 1,800 Korean civilians/political prisoners removed from the Taejon Prison in early July 1950, suspected of having "socialist or communist" sympathies, immediately prior to their execution by South Korean police acting under orders from Syngman Rhee in concert with U.S. military officers. Photo taken by U.S. Major Abbott, Army Liaison Officer, with a Leica camera, developed and printed by attaché office staff. Lt. Col. Bob E. Edwards, the U.S. Army Attaché in charge of documenting the executions, was quoted as saying, "General treatment of Prisoners of War after evacuation from front has been good." Photo from U.S. National Archive collection.

http://www.brianwillson.com/revelations-continue-to-mount-of-u-s-war-crimes-in-korea/


Same thing happened in Vietnam, daily and weekly MyLais. In Cambodia, Laos, Nicargua, Chile, Brazil, Mexico, China, ... .
 

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