Do you think we will learn anything from W's run for office

I sure hope not.

If I understand what you are saying correctly your problem is that you think the ordinary person hates the Bill of Rights. The three issues you have raised are:

- Flag burning which although offensive to many Americans is clearly an example of free expression protected under the first Amendment.

- Marriage between gays - which was decided by a state government. The federal supreme court wisely chooses to stay out of this since it is clearly a state issue under the 9th amendment.

- Sex and Violence on Television and movies is protected by the first Amendment. Besides, a large number of Americans enjoy the freedom to watch such shows (or they wouldn't be shown anyway).

So if you are suggesting that the media and courts should learn to run away from our basic rights because we are afraid of conservative political power-- I think you are dead wrong.

Look where we have come from by marching toward rights. We got rid of slavery, gave women the right to vote, allowed interracial marriages, integrated schools and stoped McCarthyism. Much of the progress we have made as a nation was precisely because the media and courts would not back down when it comes to rights and justice.

When George W is defeated I hope that we learn that we should hold to our values in spite of the underlying hatred that conservatives tap into.

a deep underlying hatred for liberal policies? I wonder about that.

I think everyone is more than willing to get their share but don't want anyone else to. Personal greed is the most highly held value in this country.

I don't see any massive protests by seniors to stop Medicare or Social Security. I don't see CEOs calling for an end to corporate welfare. Farmers aren't driving their tractors down the mall in Washington to stop farm subsidies. Pregnant women aren't marching to stop all government provided prenatal care.

The manipulation is based more on "someone else is getting more than you, more money, more freedom, more sex. It doesn't matter what, but they are getting more. Of course if you vote for me I will see you get your share too or more than your share."

As for Bush being a madman. I don't think he is. Deluded perhaps but not delusional.

ebrown_p


What I am trying to do is to understand what motivates the Bush voters. While I am against Bush I think the voters have a point. In fact the rise of Hitler was proceeded by a excessive liberal period which gave rise to a backlash by the voters.

While you seem to have brought into the idea that we are better off for the practices you mention I disagree. In the end all we have is our people. This is the bottom line and when we trash the values of the common people we are moving in a downward spiral towards disaster.

I don't buy it.

- Slavery was a "common value of the people".

- Making people ride on busses and drink from "colored" water because of the color of their skin was a "common value of the people".

- Keeping women from voting was certainly a "common value of the people".

The History of the United States from the beginning is full of people fighting for what is right in spite of the fact they were challenging "common values".

Martin Luther King, Thoreau, Frederick Douglas,Susan B Anthony and many others had a very positive effect on our country. The United States is stronger because of it.

We liberals are here and we have always been here. You are right that Bush is using this issue of "common values" to his advantage-- but this is nothing new.

Like always we will keep working regardless of temporary setbacks. History tells us that when we keep pushing we can often change "common values".

Ok don't buy it.

But be advised that some things are not as they seem. We have eliminated segregation in the south but we have also thrown thousands of blacks in jail. Many for victim less crimes. Today the life span of a person in harlem is less than that in many third world countries. Do you think this is progress? Do you think it is worth a few segregated water fountains and buses.

You are buying into the party line.

Do you want to bring back separate but equal?

You are getting a little crazy on us owl.



I agree our society is not perfect, but are you really arguing that racial equality isn't immensly better than before the civil rights movement? I don't think that any rational person would agree with that.



I believe this fantasitc claim is simply untrue. Do you have data to back this up?



Yes and yes (a thousand times yes). Our society is not perfect, but things are a million times better than the 50's. The sacrafices of those courageous heroes in the civil rights movement are definately worth it.

In the 50's people were refused housing, education and justice based on the color of their skin. Now these rights are gauranteed by law. Though you can point to continuing minor problems, there are now legal and social mechanisms to deal with it.



What party. I am a progressive independent and am very upset with the Democratic party because they are selling out what I feel should be common values. I want a party to support homosexual rights, oppose capital punishment and pursue a just foreign policy.

I plan to keep working to promote these values in the country I love. History shows that progress is slow, but in a Democracy (at least in our experience) true values of freedom and justice often win out.

I am not backing down.

Here is a link. You can find more..




link

Here is a quote from the preceeding link

People die younger in Harlem than in Bangladesh. Why? It is not what most people think -- homicide, drug abuse, and AIDS are far down the list. Rather, as The New England Journal of Medicine reports, the leading causes of death in poor black neighborhoods are "unrelenting stress," "cardiovascular disease," "cancer," and "untreated medical conditions."