Little-known requirement of Leave no Child Behind law

Hmmm, I am sorry to see that you have been offended by my post. Why such a chip on your shoulder? As you can see from my previous post, the federal dollars are a very small part of the budget at our school district. In my state, the local property taxes pay the lion's share of education costs -- and we vote to tax ourselves. I have said nothing against the military presence and, in fact, was part of it, myself. However, it is not exactly profitable to have military children in a school, though it is nice to get those extra dollars and I know they are appreciated. Those dollars are too flexible to be counted on as part of the ongoing budget since military families move about so much. To me, I think that best reason for welcoming military kids into the schools is that they have a perspective and a special difference from knowing about the world that is good for the more home-bound among us to experience. We do not have subsidized military housing here as we far from the bases, though a few military families buy or rent and many more retire here.

And if I may be permitted to add to your "non-partisan" comment. The reason I cited factcheck.org is a veteran A2Ker has recommended it on several occasions and, as does she, I find it to be a good source for facts.

I'm not the one who used the term "whopping" to describe the increase in federal spending on education - that was factcheck.org's opinion.

My own personal opinion is it doesn't seem to matter how much money the government gives the schools. It's how those schools use it that would seem to make the difference.

On a personal note, I plan to home-school my future children. I know that's not an option for everyone...

Im not offended in the least at your posts, nor do I have a chip on my shoulder. Just stating a fact about that money. Problem is the schools can be given the money and officials are not being held accountable for it.

Can I use Tenessee as an example? I would like to use that because it borders Fort Campbell where we are stationed

I can deal with paying a 9.95 sales tax, I can also accept that on paydays the goods on the economy and on post are jacked up on paydays which is a well knwn fact that most people in the military live paycheck to paycheck. It is also a fact that the public school system and general policies in Tenn are a bit warped and twisted. Priorities and such.

The lottery commisioner gets paid 1 million a year to run the lottery, yet schools cannot start on time due to budget restraints. The lottery commisioner is the highest paid lottery official in this country... why? She then in turn hires her friends and they make mucho grande cash for thier jobs. They build new stadiums but cant afford books. If there wasnt 22,000 soldiers here this town and surrounding communities would die off . Businesses suffer when the division deploys. Prnciples get paid 130k a year in an area where the cost of living is lower than their out of pocket expenses.

Who is taking responsibility for the education system being underfunded when you see money being wasted? The people here? School started 3 weeks late due to budget problems.

Kids here are not treated as individuals they are treated as paychecks. military kids even more so because with them comes more money. God forbid a parent gets involved and nosy. I did and it earned my child being failed and almost held back a grade because they didnt appreciate my involvement. Had I not paid to have Sylvan Learning center test her she would have suffered due to a political school board and a teacher with an attitude.

What teacher in their right mind, would tell children in her classroom in a military community that their parents are hired thugs for the government, hired to kill innocent children in other countires? And What would possess a school board to support that teacher?

What would possess a highly educated person in Education to assume all kids are liars and thugs and parents dont care and that they are always right, because somehow their degrees make it so?

I support the "No child left behind" just for the fact that now those schools test scores are monitored and if their current system isnt working they need to be forced to improve it. They must be held accountable for their lack in educating the kids attending public schools. If teachers dont want to teach then they shouldnt be rewarded with more money and incentives, nor should the school.

Thing is you cant have it both ways... you want more government money but by your own terms, there has to be intervention by someone, because by experiance I know how hard it is to fight the school system when it comes fighting for the right to ensure your child gets the best education possible. You get months of excuses and finger pointing. With the no chiild left behind act, they put the power to the parents that do think that school is more than free daycare.

This is far afield and a real digression but ...

Just Wonders -- Home-schooling is an OK option if you can manage it, though I think it can be hard for kids to assimilate socially and I am not interested in social groups limited by religion. What I am for are alternative ways to educate. I would send my kids to Montessori if I had it to do over again. Kids need outside stimulation, though I believe all parents should be overseeing their kid's education. However, if you are not truly qualified, then don't try to pretend so to your kids, just let them have their head. That's the most important thing... autodidacts probably have the best teachers of all.


Armyvet -- I've always thought Fort Campbell must be a hellhole. As a Cameron and a McDonald ally, everything smacking of Campbell is suspect to me. It is important to continue to supervise your kids' education and I hope it becomes easier for you and your kids. Sadly, it can be statistically proven that many people are jerks.

The problem with the logic in this particular case is that a large majority of the "poor" never finish high school never mind college and a high school diploma is required as a minimum for acceptenace into the military unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Based on 2000 stats - The national high school drop-out rate is at 16.8% annually. 14% are students from families in the bottom 20% for income. Only 1 child in 6 from "poor families" is likely to graduate.

Moore's insinuation doesn't hold up because the poor are basically disqualifying themselves from the pool of those eligible to serve in the military by not completing high school. The ultra-wealthy and the poor are basically absent in military service today.

Then what the heck were those Marine recruiters doing in Flint? Just chatting the boys up?

Their targets are 18-21 year olds. If you are in that age group they'll talk to you until they figure out if you meet the minimum requirements or not.

A recruiter is a salesman and just like any salesman they do some BSing with people they know will never "buy" in the hopes of getting a lead on someone that will. But just because a recuiter talks to someone it doesn't mean that person will get into any of the services.

Have you seen the film, fishin? They were clearly not looking for 18-21 year olds. They were looking for much younger boys, and said as much.

Perhaps Fishin isn't aware of the GED Plus Program? Besides the 15,000 allowed GED enlistees, there are approximately 6000 young people per year who are encouraged to join the army every year and complete their GED while being paid. They must be at least 18 years of age.

from: http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blgedplus.htm

I'm going to guess that you added that last (...) part yourself.

Even if this is the case, it is better then what they are going to get in their Democrat controlled cities where they live now. Most of these kids prosper in the military and make a decent life for themselves and their families when they have them.

Well, Baldimo, you would guess wrong.

If you bothered to check the link I gave, then you would know that. In fact, I am astounded that you would think I would add my own words to a quote. I consider that highly unethical.

Piffka yes the program exsists, but it doesnt list the full requirements needed for the program and it is not a guarenteed acceptance. There is a long waiver program that is also in there plus only 3% of those trying for that program are accepted and the other 97% are turned away....

60% of recruitees last year had college credits and continuing education already... 22% were HS grads and then there is the other catagory which includes service to service transfers and prior service soldiers re-enlisting.

Those numbers in no way include Military Academy applicants, WO applicants nor ROTC and OCS candidates.

As a matter of fact, the link I had DID list the full requirements. Unlike some people here, I feel no need to post the whole article when I cite it because I would think you could check it for yourself. I'd like to know where you got your figures, so if you have a source, please offer it.

I am not arguing against the army, I was simply correcting the statement that someone without a HS diploma or GED could not get into the army. It is not only possible, but is done as a method to encourage the lowest-income recruits.

1. Score 50 or higher on the Armed Forces Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) test.

People with HS diplomas have a hard time with scoring high in many cases. ASVAB is all about education I scored a 126 on the GT portion which all owed me to have whatever job I wanted. I saw people in my test room that had problems with the algebra and such on that test. This test alone eliminates people quick. the GT score is the key to finding out the learning capabilities of recruits in General Technical Knowledge. For those people that have slow or low reading comprhension, or can barely read or do math... that test will be brutal for them.

2. • Must be in good moral standing (ie, requires no moral waivers).
*Offenses/Moral Behavior Which Can Be Waived:

Minor Traffic Offenses, Minor Non-Traffic Offenses.MisdemeanorOffenses.Felony.Combinations,DWI/DUI.

*Offenses/Moral Behavior Which Cannot be Waived:
Intoxicated or under influence of alcohol or drugs .
Criminal or juvenile court charges filed or pending against them by civil authorities. Pending charges include unpaid traffic violations.
Persons under civil restraint, such as confinement, parole, or probation.
Subject of initial civil court conviction or adverse disposition for more than one felony offense
Civil conviction of a felony with three or more other offenses (other than traffic)
Subject of initial civil court conviction or other adverse dispositions for sale, distribution, or trafficking (including "Intent To:) of cannabis (marijuana), or any other controlled substance.
Prior service military with an RE code of "4"
Persons with a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable discharge.
Three or more convictions or other adverse dispositions for driving while intoxicated, drugged, or impaired in the 5 years preceding application for enlistment
Persons with convictions or other adverse dispositions for 5 or more misdemeanors preceding application for enlistment

U.S. Army Criminal History
Typical Felony Offenses (just a few of them and there are many)

Aggravated assault, assault with dangerous weapon, assault intentionally inflicting great bodily harm, or assault with intent to commit a felony. This also includes child, parental, or spouse abuse
Arson.
Attempt to commit a felony.
Breaking and entering.
Bribery.
Burglary, (burglary tools, possession of).
Carnal knowledge of a minor
Check, worthless, making or uttering, with intent to defraud or deceive ($250.00 or more).
Conspiring to commit a felony.
Driving while drugged or intoxicated, or driving while ability impaired (2 or more offenses).
Extortion.
Forgery; knowingly uttering or passing forged instrument.
Illegal/fraudulent use of a credit card, bank card, or automated (ATM) card (value of $250.00 or more).
Mails; depositing obscene or indecent matter
Manslaughter.
Negligent/vehicular homicideai.
Solicitation or Prostitution

Expunged record. Some states have procedures for a later "expunging of the record," dismissal of charges, or pardon (on evidence of rehabilitation of the offender). Such action removes the "initial conviction" or "other adverse disposition" so that, under state law, the applicant has no record of conviction or adverse juvenile adjudication. Despite the legal effect of this action, a waiver of such an applicant may be required and the underlying facts must be revealed.

3. • Score 46 or higher on the Assessment of Individual Motivation (AIM) test

4. • Possess a letter of enrollment into a GED program with a start and completion date

5. Not be able to return to high school to fulfill your high school diploma requirement

6. Not require a Drug and Alcohol waiver

As one can see there are many things attached to that program and seriously only 3% of those waivers are approved. should note here that there is no such thing as a "sealed record," or an "expunged record" as far as the military is concerned. The recruiting services have access to law enforcement and FBI investigative records, which -- quite often will list arrests in these categories.

There are also a few other things not mentioned like the following.

Dependents. In general, DOD prohibits the enlistment of any applicant who has more than two dependents under the age of 18. While the services are allowed to waive this policy, they often will not. In fact, most of the services are even more strict policies. The Navy, for example requires a waiver for any applicant with more than one dependent. To receive a waiver, the applicant must show that they are financially responsible (which means the Navy will check their credit report). In the Marine Corps, a waiver is required if an applicant has any dependent under the age of 18. The Air Force will do a financial eligibility determination (see below) if the member has any dependents. The Army requires a waiver if the applicant has two or more dependents (in addition to the spouse).
Before a dependency waiver is granted for any of the services, the recruiting service will conduct a financial eligibility determination.

Financial Eligibility Determinations. Some recruits will have to show that they will be able to meet their current financial obligations upon enlistment. This includes recruits who are married (or who have ever been married), recruits who require a dependency waiver, recruits with a history of collection accounts, bankruptcy, closed uncollected accounts or bad credit. In the Air Force, it also includes any recruit who is at least 23 years of age. In general, the services are attempting to ensure that the recruit can meet current financial obligations on military active duty pay. For example, the Air Force uses the "40 percent rule." Any recruit who's monthly consumer debts (not counting debts which can be deferred, such as student loans) exceeds 40 percent of his/her anticipated military pay is ineligible for enlistment.

For example, using current (FY 2002) figures, a recruit who is enlisting at the grade of E-1 would be ineligible for enlistment if he/she had a monthly minimum payment (as shown on the credit report) of $385 or more. For E-2, $467 or more, and for E-3 $485 or more. While waivers are possible, don't expect a waiver for very much past these limits.

No person may be selected who has a history of bad checks (unless through bank error), repossessions, cancelled or suspended charge accounts, or indebtedness exceeding half the annual salary of the paygrade at which the person is being recruited. If indebtedness includes a long-term mortgage, total indebtedness must not exceed 2 ½ times the annual salary.

Single Parents. Single parents are not allowed to enlist in the military, period. In the "old days," some recruits would try to get around this restriction by giving up legal custody of their child(ren) until after basic training and AIT/Tech School/A-School, but the military has wised up to this practice.

Tier III: Non-High School Graduate. An applicant who is neither a high school graduate nor an alternative credential holder. The military services accept very, very, very few Tier III category personnel. When they do make a rare exception, the applicant must usually score significantly higher on the ASVAB than Tier I and Tier II candidates. The Army will allow up to 10 percent each year to be Tier II candidates, but they must score a minimum of 50 on the AFQT. The Marines will only allow about 5 percent each year to be Tier II, and the Navy about 10 percent. Like the Army and Air Force, Tier II recruits must score a minimum of 50 on the AFQT to qualify.

Height/Weight Standards.

The cause for rejection for Armed Forces male applicants is height less than 60 inches or more than 80 inches. The cause for rejection for Armed Forces female applicants is height less than 58 inches or more than 80 inches. The Marines are more restrictive. For the Marines, height standards for male applicants range from 58 to 78 inches. Height standards for female applicants range from 58 to 72 inches. The military services use weight charts to initially screen candidates. Individuals who are over the weight listed on the appropriate chart must pass a body-fat measurement test, and be within the prescribe body-fat limits for the specific military service concerned.

Medical Screening. The medical officials at MEPs do not work for any of the individual services. They work for DOD (MEPS). Their job is to use a set list of medical standards to determine whether or not one is medically qualified to perform military duties. Using these set standards, the MEPs medical officials either certify a candidate as medically qualified, or medically disqualified (there's no "in-betweens").


In conclusion the % rate of getting a waiver is just a beginning. There are many more factors to consider. Unfortunately they dont mention all this other stuff on that program....

BBB
I want to thank everyone who responded to my topic. I've learned a lot about your experiences throughout the country including military and non-military.

BBB

I was aware of it. The GED Plus program was 4 year pilot program that began in 2001 and terminated in 2003 (2 years early). A grand total of 67 people used and completed the program. I don't think that makes a whole lot of difference in the stastical balance when you look at the composition of the military as a whole.

And when I referred to requiring a high school diploma earlier I ment it as "high school diploma or equivalent" which includes those that already have a GED.

Whatever. You certainly are chary with your sources.

I wonder where you get this information, fishin, since I have searched for it unsucessfully online -- the most important link was the one I posted and which clearly states it is a continuing project.

The only thing I found about it was (here http://armed-services.senate.gov/statemnt/2003/March/Chu.pdf ) that in March 2003, the Undersecretary of Defense Chu stated that GED Plus was still continuing, although in the same breath he mentioned that the No Child Left Behind Act of 2002 had opened the doors to high schools for recruiters.

My son, who speaks to recruiters a lot, and is in ROTC, says that anyone without a GED will be encouraged by the recruiters to get one AND take a community college class or two which gives them an edge.

Since I think Gen. Colin Powell received a GED, there is no reason to hold one's nose when discussing them. I, for one, think that high school is highly over-rated and the best that most military guys will get out high school is a competitive love of sports... but that's my bias.

Not high school grads. High schoolers. In combination with the increase of troops going to Iraq, this isn't looking good.

fox news it's an AP article