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In Science We Trust: Evolution Creates Life

 
 
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 10:14 am

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0pZ3ddUAAApf-W.jpg

Well, who would like to find a bigger picture of it?
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 11:56 am
@oristarA,
why not just resize it
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 12:12 pm
@oristarA,
I don't know exactly what trusting in Science (with a capital 'S') means.

But it sounds like nonsense.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 01:11 pm
@oristarA,
Ori I don't know abut the illustration 'cuz it looks tedious. But evolution accounts for everything, even itself. The progression of that tiny but massive black spot of uniform composition from the Big Bang through the present is also evolution
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2016 12:21 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I don't know exactly what trusting in Science (with a capital 'S') means.

But it sounds like nonsense.



All words are capitalized together as a headline: In Science We Trust: Evolution Creates Life.

Scientists are science incarnate, science in the flesh, which provides the strongest foundation for civilization.

Your words show us that you are increasingly Trump-ized in your thinking pattern.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2016 05:18 am
@dalehileman,
If you could read it, that diagram shows the connectivity oof all the known sppecies by genetics. It identifies the "common ancestors" of the major groups.
As you can see, most species of the earth are really smaller than a pinhead.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2016 09:00 am
@oristarA,
Science is based on hypotheses that are testable. Let's approach this thread in a scientific method. It seems like the fantastic claims you are making are far from scientific.

Let's use scientific reasoning to your own posts about science (which is not only useful, but amusing).

You claim that scientists provide "the strongest foundation for civilization". I question this claim.

Can you propose an scientific experiment to test this claim? Is there any data to suggests that you are correct?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2016 09:02 am
@oristarA,
I would also like you to provide a metric for what it means to be "Trumpized" (a metric is an important tool in science to test a hypothesis).

1) You are making bold unfounded assertions... and you are stating them as facts.
2) I am questioning your assertions and asking for a evidence based discussion.
3) You are responding with personal attacks.

I would think that your behavior is closer to "Trumpism" than mine. But without a metric we can't say for sure.
oristarA
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2016 11:29 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


You claim that scientists provide "the strongest foundation for civilization". I question this claim.



First. You didn't read my claim correctly. My sentence is: Scientists are science incarnate, science in the flesh, which provides the strongest foundation for civilization. "

See? It is "provides", not "provide," which means the subject of the verb "provide" is science (single), not scientists (plural).

maxdancona wrote:

Can you propose an scientific experiment to test this claim? Is there any data to suggests that you are correct?


Second. So you know now that my claim is "science provides the strongest foundation for civilization." And you want me to design or propose an experiment to test it? I doubt any single experiment can do this job.

But countless scientists together have built the grand mansion of modern science, of modern civilization. So it is easy to find data of experiments to help in some way prove the correctness of the claim: (1)Louis Pasteur's(who saved countless lives by laying the foundation of microbiology); (2) Today's genome sequencing greatly facilitates the prevention and control of epidemic disease (1918 flu pandemic alone killed nearly 100 million people. and today the advancement of science has made the world a much much safer place).
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2016 11:48 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
So you know now that my claim is "science provides the strongest foundation for civilization." And you want me to design or propose an experiment to test it? I doubt any single experiment can do this job.


In that case it isn't a scientific claim. You are making a philosophical statement.

I can provide contradictory evidence to this claim... there have been long lasting, stable, prosperous civilizations with little understanding of science. Human civilizations flourished for thousands of years before Louis Pasteur was born.

But in any case, this isn't a scientific argument. Even when I disagree with you, I appreciate when you can make points to support your argument without resorting to personal attacks.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2016 08:12 pm
@maxdancona,
The metric for Trumpization is simply two words:

Magical Me

(For example)
Trump: I won popular vote.
(Observers):It's official: Clinton won the popular vote.
Trump: Because millions of people voted fraudulently.
(Observers):The evidence?
Trump: (My word itself is evidence. Even if I shot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue, my voters will still support me, Megical Me.)

Trumpizing is a carefree process of degenerating from American founding principles of truth and evidence.

I retrieved "In Science We Trust" from my memory, Max. But if I remembered correctly, it was from Nature (leading scientific journal in the world) or Scientific American (a Google serarch has confirmed it:

nature: In science we trust
Scientific American: In Science We Trust

When I posted the thread with title "In Science We Trust: Evolution Creates Life" and the map (picture), you reacted with "it sounds like nonsense." Not to mention the fact that "In Science We Trust" is much appreciated by leading scientists, isn't evolution of life a well-established truth in science, Max? Such lack of respect for science is typically a Trump-style behavior. Your English is sufficient to distinguish "In Science We Trust" from "in Science we trust" in the background of "evolution" with that wonderful picture as evidence.

So who's unfounded? Who's making personal attacks? My evidence is there. Yet you shut your eyes and simply responded with "nonsense" without offering your evidence for discussion. Isn't this behavior of yours Trumpized? Isn't this behavior of yours unfounded? Isn't this behavior of yours personal attacks?



oristarA wrote:
In Science We Trust: Evolution Creates Life


maxdancona wrote:

I don't know exactly what trusting in Science (with a capital 'S') means.

But it sounds like nonsense.



oristarA wrote:


All words are capitalized together as a headline: In Science We Trust: Evolution Creates Life.

Scientists are science incarnate, science in the flesh, which provides the strongest foundation for civilization.

Your words show us that you are increasingly Trump-ized in your thinking pattern.



maxdancona wrote:

I would also like you to provide a metric for what it means to be "Trumpized" (a metric is an important tool in science to test a hypothesis).

1) You are making bold unfounded assertions... and you are stating them as facts.
2) I am questioning your assertions and asking for a evidence based discussion.
3) You are responding with personal attacks.

I would think that your behavior is closer to "Trumpism" than mine. But without a metric we can't say for sure.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2016 10:02 pm
@oristarA,
I haven't made any claims myself. I am simply questioning the fantastic (i.e. unsupportable) claims that you are making. And you keep making more unsupportable claims with each post.

1. You have not provided a single reputable scientist that has said that evolution creates life.

2. You haven't responded to the evidence I provided that many civilizations have flourished without modern science in spite of your claim to the contrary.

3. You now claim that America is based core values of evidence and truth. I will point out that we still write "In God we Trust" on all of our money, and one of our core historical documents states that our inherent human rights come from our creator.

4. You claim that questioning nonsense claims with evidence and reason is "trump-like" behavior, in spite of the fact that you provide no example of Trump ever doing such a thing.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2017 06:26 am
Happy New Year to You All.

Some New Year celebrations here. I will come back later.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2017 06:38 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You have not provided a single reputable scientist that has said that evolution creates life.
How bout of she said , "Evolution creates new life-forms"?
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2017 08:21 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I haven't made any claims myself. I am simply questioning the fantastic (i.e. unsupportable) claims that you are making. And you keep making more unsupportable claims with each post.

1. You have not provided a single reputable scientist that has said that evolution creates life.



I am amused. I've offered powerful evidence yet you keep closing your eyes and sleepwalking.

Well, let me make it clearer for you, and more important, for our readers:

Life is either created by God, or created by evolution. There is no other way around. If God is rejected, then evolution creates life.

Almost all leading scientists of the United Stated reject God, that is, they almost all believe that evolution creates life!

Evidence? Click "leading scientists" in my previous post, evidence is there by Nature:

Quote:
Leading scientists still reject God
Our latest survey finds that, among the top natural scientists (of the United States), disbelief is greater than ever — almost total.
(The words in the round brackets are added by me)

These scientists were members of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS). Is it clear enough, Max? Are they reputable? Will you still insist that I should list the name of a single reputable scientist?

Well, to satisfy our Max's peculiar taste, here is a list of 72 Nobel laureates who support evolutionary science or uphold the notion - "Evolution creates life", rejecting that God created life (it is fromEdwards v. Aguillard:
U.S. Supreme Court Decision
):

Quote:
INTEREST OF AMICI CURAE

Amici curiae are individual scientists, state academies of science, and other scientific organizations. Each of the 72 individual amici has received the Nobel Prize in Physics[1], in Chemistry[2], or in Physiology or Medicine[3].

COMPLETE LIST OF REPRESENTED AMICI

Nobel Laureates: Luis W. Alvarez, Carl D. Anderson, Christian B. Anfinsen, Julius Axelrod, David Baltimore, John Bardeen, Paul Berg, Hans A. Bethe, Konrad Bloch, Nicolaas Bloembergen, Michael S. Brown, Herbert C. Brown, Melvin Calvin, S. Chandrasekhar, Leon N. Cooper, Allan Cormack, Andre Cournand, Francis Crick, Renato Dulbecco, Leo Esaki, Val L. Fitch, William A. Fowler, Murray Gell-Mann, Ivar Giaever, Walter Gilbert, Donald A. Glaser, Sheldon Lee Glashow, Joseph L. Goldstein, Roger Guillemin, Roald Hoffmann, Robert Hofstadter, Robert W. Holley, David H. Hubel, Charles B. Huggins, H. Gobind Khorana, Arthur Kornberg, Polykarp Kusch, Willis E. Lamb, Jr., William Lipscomb, Salvador E. Luria, Barbara McClintock, Bruce Merrifield, Robert S. Mulliken, Daniel Nathans, Marshall Nirenberg, John H. Northrop, Severo Ochoa, George E. Palade, Linus Pauling, Arno A. Penzias, Edward M. Purcell, Isidor I. Rabi, Burton Richter, Frederick Robbins, J. Robert Schrieffer, Glenn T. Seaborg, Emilio Segre, Hamilton O. Smith, George D. Snell, Roger Sperry, Henry Taube, Howard M. Temin, Samuel C. C. Ting, Charles H. Townes, James D. Watson, Steven Weinberg, Thomas H. Weller, Eugene P. Wigner, Kenneth G. Wilson, Robert W. Wilson, Rosalyn Yalow, Chen Ning Yang.


The Nobel laureates firmly rejected creationism.


PS. I have been enjoying New Year activities. Other Max's questions will be replied later.









farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2017 08:40 am
@oristarA,
Quote:

Life is either created by God, or created by evolution
The "Creation of Life" is NOT evolution. Thats a misuse of a term and I think Max objects to its misuse.
Evolution only occurs after life is already present
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2017 08:57 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:

Life is either created by God, or created by evolution
The "Creation of Life" is NOT evolution. Thats a misuse of a term and I think Max objects to its misuse.
Evolution only occurs after life is already present


No, his basic idea is God created life (Max:...our inherent human rights come from our creator).

In the broad sense, evolutionary continuum includes early stage chemical evolution that led to the rise of life. Your evolution is a special one.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2017 10:02 am
@oristarA,
sorry but youre wrong. Chemical "evolution" is not recognized as a pre-biotic concept.
Its just a term of convenience.
Creation and EVolution describe two totally different realms of biology.
You my wish to continue some kind of argument but Im on pretty good ground here.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2017 10:12 am
@oristarA,
BTW, Edwards v Aguillrd was a USSC case that arose from teaching Creationism as a subject in the biology curriculum of Louisiana Public Schools.
"Scientific Creationism" had described itself as embodying both the
1Creation of Life on earth
2The subsequent arrival of different species through time.

Todays science does not accept the term. If you wih to continue some argument you have to realize that you are adopting terminology from both a religion based world-view mixed in with a bit of what science is about. Your playing both ides of the court.
SCIENTIFIC CREATIONISM tried to envelop both concepts. That dont make it right because the entire concept of Scientific Creationism was found to be unconstitutional by a wide majority of the USSC Justices who opined.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2017 11:52 am
@oristarA,
You haven't offered me any evidence Oristar. You just keep making more and more unfounded claims. And now you are making them loudly.

Let's add to the list

1. You now claim "Life is either created by God, or created by evolution." This is clearly untrue (even forgetting the fact that you haven't supported your claim that evolution creates life). There are lots of possible options other than the two you provide. You can have a God that uses evolution. Or you could have a mechanism that doesn't have either God or evolution... something else maybe.

2. You claim that "almost all" scientists reject God. Your own link says that the number is 72% of scientists. Is 72% really "almost all"?

3. You haven't provided a single link to a scientist who says that evolution creates life. Scientists say that evolution explains the development of species from earlier lifeforms. But I have yet to see the claim that "evolution creates life".
 

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